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Do you as a Muslim believe in women's equality?

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Would it be equally as "logical" then to not permit men to drive as that gives them more freedom to get around and thus increase the chance of them committing adultery?
No. Women are in the home or a business with other women where that cannto happen. Men have to go out to provide for the family.
Women are considered guilty of adultery when they are raped in certain countries. Simply saying "don't commit it" isn't exactly easy when you can be held as guilty of something you refused to do. When the actual person guilty of something is a man and he gets off the hook because the woman is considered guilty.
What countries, what reference do you have?
I mean, let's just face it, there are certain laws in place that are there to pretty much excuse savage behavior from men by placing the blame for those hideous actions upon women. Women can't wear this, women can't go there, women shouldn't hold these jobs alongside men...because basically...men can't control themselves. And if a woman was attacked or hurt or anything...well that was obviously her fault for being there in the first place.
I think perhaps you don't want to face your own responsibility, but you still want attention from men. You appear to be advicating the shop window mentallity without anyone being allowed through the doors.
Just exactly what is wrong with women having the expectation of being treated equally? As human beings?
You mean they want more power and wealth I suppose.
With expecting men to behave as civilized creatures not led about by their "machismo"?
They should do, as women should, which you did mention. Your misandristic credentials are showing through me thinks..haha. A little one sided are we, hmmm.
A woman is just as intelligent,
In some areas yes. It would depend on the subject.
just as capable, just as efficient as a man.
That would depend. If you were, then we would have found you throughout history, which we don't. We find you now that the world is easier in the west. Men and women certainly think differently, and men certainly have to make allowances for you, as most seem to be doing now...accept me... so perhaps it is I who am giving you true equality. :)
Should she not be able to live the life she chooses just like men do?
Do they? I think we are bound by many contraints actually.
Whether that means working as a construction worker
as a what! Haha. Aer you joking? Ok, I suppose some could, but not many, nor would they want to. They tend to like jobs where they can dress as prostitutes, which is now called normal.
or deciding to stay home with children, as men have that choice as well.
Really? What planet are we talking about. You mean there are women out there that will look after me? Tell me of one, quick! I see, you mean choice, but not in reality, just as some kinda ideology.
In many cases a woman may be more equipped to bring in a better and more comfortable income to live on than her husband.
Exactly, so why ***** about them not having the same money as men? Stereotypical feminist talk I think
Her education or abilities better than his. So, really, the couple would both be fool to think that, just because she is a woman, she shouldn't work or that she should be the one to stay home with the children. If one were to stay home with the kids, in that situation, it should clearly be the man and let the woman bring home the bacon.
A couple did jus that, and gues what? The women resented the fact that the man was at home with the baby, as she pictured him with his feet on the coffee table, as she was at work to support him...haha funny eh? Get me out of the kitchen, Get me back in again...haha
Frankly, your ideas really are misogynistic, extremely out-dated, and truly offensive to men and women alike.
Misogynistic means to hate women. I don't, so that is false. Just because you don't agree with someone's thoughts, youi should not lower yourself to name calling. This happens everytime on this subject. It says more about you than it does about me. As for outdated (in the west), you are probably right.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
It is also prejudice against women. Which you have made clearly apparent on your posts.
Defining roles for men and women is not to hate nor to be prejudiced against them. You just ues modern day words and terms to manipulate and demonise people. It happens all the time. But it is wrong. We are supposed to have 'freedom of speech' are we not? Very pertinent at the moment I would say.
You perhaps have hatred of men
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
This is either a display of pretending not to realize something or a display of downright delusion.
mi·sog·y·ny

mi·sog·y·ny [mi sójjənee]
n
hatred of women: a hatred of women, as a sexually defined group


[Mid-17th century. < Greek misogunia < misein "to hate" + gunē "woman"]


-mi·sog·y·nist [mi sójjənist], , n adj
-mi·sog·y·nis·tic [mi sòjjə nístik], , adj
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Christianity has already had its own benighted period that literally took hundreds of years to be mitigated. We can still see what influenced the clergy in the Dark Ages to support witch hunts and misogyny when we read Christian scriptures, however. That includes the commandment that women remain silent in church.

Oh, by the way, the verse is there in big, bold letters in your so-called "holy" book:

1 Corinthians 14:34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.
As atheism as had its. But please don't start quoting writings you have no right to read from, nor understand. This is just insult after injury!
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
As atheism as had its. But please don't start quoting writings you have no right to read from, nor understand. This is just insult after injury!

I look at it this way: poison needs to be tested before you can create an antidote. Of course I'm going to read and look up different understandings of such ancient writings. It helps shed light on the mindset of certain people... like some in this thread who probably know who they are.
 
Christianity has already had its own benighted period that literally took hundreds of years to be mitigated. We can still see what influenced the clergy in the Dark Ages to support witch hunts and misogyny when we read Christian scriptures, however. That includes the commandment that women remain silent in church.

Oh, by the way, the verse is there in big, bold letters in your so-called "holy" book:

1 Corinthians 14:34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

No - not my holy book thank you

Still, you rather missed the point because as I clearly said, whether or not you can find legitimate scriptual reference to such a command the absolutely essential thing is that we do not see such texts being evoked in reality do we. That is the point - but if that is the game you wish to play then I can really go to town on all the vulgar things espoused (not to mention actually acted upon) in the koran.

Now I say again, go to Church right now and see if I am lying. I assure you I am not - and then go to a Mosque and witness the mysogyny.

Adieu.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Defining roles for men and women is not to hate nor to be prejudiced against them.

When this act of 'defining' is born out of prejudice, it is.
And that's pretty much always the case when it comes down to defining roles for men and women.

You just ues modern day words and terms to manipulate and demonise people. It happens all the time. But it is wrong. We are supposed to have 'freedom of speech' are we not? Very pertinent at the moment I would say.
You perhaps have hatred of men

You certainly do have freedom of speech. But that doesn't grant you the right to say whatever you wish without being criticized.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
No - not my holy book thank you

Still, you rather missed the point because as I clearly said, whether or not you can find legitimate scriptual reference to such a command the absolutely essential thing is that we do not see such texts being evoked in reality do we. That is the point - but if that is the game you wish to play then I can really go to town on all the vulgar things espoused (not to mention actually acted upon) in the koran.

Now I say again, go to Church right now and see if I am lying. I assure you I am not - and then go to a Mosque and witness the mysogyny.

Adieu.

Apparently you have missed his point. Read again what he said:

... which is why Christian scripture says that women should remain silent in church.

Is hypocrisy a sin in your religion?
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
I look at it this way: poison needs to be tested before you can create an antidote. Of course I'm going to read and look up different understandings of such ancient writings. It helps shed light on the mindset of certain people... like some in this thread who probably know who they are.
But it is spiritually discerned and sacred text, so it might actually make things worse if you do not understand it.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Is Islam a hetero normative religion that when adopted in its surrounding culture defines gender roles in these normative constructs? When defining equality, does it assume equality within the confines of a heterosexual procreative marital household?

How does this bode for homosexual, bisexual, and/or transgender women? How does this also define women's roles when post menopausal? Divorced? Or infertile?
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Is Islam a hetero normative religion that when adopted in its surrounding culture defines gender roles in these normative constructs? When defining equality, does it assume equality within the confines of a heterosexual procreative marital household?

How does this bode for homosexual, bisexual, and/or transgender women? How does this also define women's roles when post menopausal? Divorced? Or infertile?
What are you talking about?
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
nor I :)
And they don't oppress women, that is just the way you see it.

You don't consider women being herded underneath fabric like cattle for the purpose of being raped or worse, oppressive?

I know that this type of situation doesn't represent all of Islam. But, when a woman is abused and/or is denied choice and dignity - a significant element of oppression presents.
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
No. Women are in the home or a business with other women where that cannto happen. Men have to go out to provide for the family.
LOL men work alongside women, can go other places to meet other women, because they can drive, yet only women are going to be susceptible to possible adultery by driving? Wow.

What countries, what reference do you have?
What rock have you been living under? UAE, Sudan, Indonesia,...

I think perhaps you don't want to face your own responsibility, but you still want attention from men. You appear to be advicating the shop window mentallity without anyone being allowed through the doors.

You mean they want more power and wealth I suppose.

They should do, as women should, which you did mention. Your misandristic credentials are showing through me thinks..haha. A little one sided are we, hmmm.
Not one lick of any of that made any sense.

In some areas yes. It would depend on the subject.
Are you saying that men, in general, are automatically more intelligent than women in particular subjects? Because that's ridiculous. If you just mean on a case by case basis, that is true for every individual.

That would depend. If you were, then we would have found you throughout history, which we don't. We find you now that the world is easier in the west. Men and women certainly think differently, and men certainly have to make allowances for you, as most seem to be doing now...accept me... so perhaps it is I who am giving you true equality. :)
Utterly ridiculous.

Do they? I think we are bound by many contraints actually.
Just the ones that have been inflicted by a patriarchal society. Men can choose to do what they want, and they can, as long as they don't have this insane "what it is to be a man" thought in their heads.

as a what! Haha. Aer you joking? Ok, I suppose some could, but not many, nor would they want to. They tend to like jobs where they can dress as prostitutes, which is now called normal.
No, not joking. In fact, I intentionally used a job that I have done in the past. And no, I don't think camouflage uniforms are currently "prostitute" wear. In fact, I can't say that I have ever held a job where I could or would wear things that made me look like a prostitute. Most jobs I have held have been either uniforms or professional wear.

Really? What planet are we talking about. You mean there are women out there that will look after me? Tell me of one, quick! I see, you mean choice, but not in reality, just as some kinda ideology.
What are you talking about here? Do you need looking after? Are you not a grown man? I was speaking of one parent choosing to stay home to help raise children and take care of household duties. Both men and women are capable of doing this and have that choice. I have been on both sides of the coin myself. For many years I was the sole income and my husband stayed home with the kids and took care of the house. I now stay home and take care of house and children while my hubby is the sole income.

Exactly, so why ***** about them not having the same money as men? Stereotypical feminist talk I think
Just because a woman may be making more than her man or may be making a good income in general does not necessarily mean that she is being paid what she is truly worth. That she is being paid what a man in the same position would be getting paid.

A couple did jus that, and gues what? The women resented the fact that the man was at home with the baby, as she pictured him with his feet on the coffee table, as she was at work to support him...haha funny eh? Get me out of the kitchen, Get me back in again...haha
Ohhhh, a couple did that huh? And because of their own personal issues it didn't work out? Oh, well then, you must be right, it must not work out for anyone. that one couple sets the bar for every man and woman in the world. Thank you so much for teaching that lesson.:rolleyes:

Misogynistic means to hate women. I don't, so that is false. Just because you don't agree with someone's thoughts, youi should not lower yourself to name calling. This happens everytime on this subject. It says more about you than it does about me. As for outdated (in the west), you are probably right.
"hatred,dislike,or mistrust of women,or prejudice against women." - so says Misogyny | Define Misogyny at Dictionary.com
You have issues with women. That is clear. You mistrust women, you are prejudiced against women, and you seem to genuinely dislike women. Now, you can claim that you aren't misogynistic all you like. But you do fit the bill quite well. Or would you rather prefer gynophobia? Because I think any person exhibiting misogyny must have at least a touch of gynophobia within them.
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Yes, women ''often'' make less than men. That says it all. Very telling where your thoughts are.

What? That I dare project myself as being of equal importance to men? I sure as hell hope that this is what you're gathering from me.

What kind of struggle? Men supporting you? Is that a struggle? Oh, I guess you mean having freedom from men now we have made a suitably easy climate for you to express yourselves in.

I work hard and am capable of supporting myself. My husband and I chose each other and choose to work towards mutual goals as partners. Naturally, each has strengths and weaknesses. But, I'm not subordinate to him in any way. I'm free to aspire towards my own goals.

I know that many Muslim marriages operate under the same concepts. I've listened to some remarkably strong and independent Muslim women who genuinely love their God and the lives that they lead.

My comments are not directed towards these types of women. My comments are directed towards those who are treated like no more than cattle or possessions.

I've always had the right to express myself freely. What part of you played in paving this way for women in the United States?

I assume you mean 'reduce' ? I'v yet to see women protect men with their own lives or work for them so they can stay at home, without ridiculing them. As for ''under the guise of religion'' you make that sound as it is only believers who do bad things. Not so, surely you know that. Anyway, there is a masculine that is the stronger and a feminine that is the weaker. we have roles to play. It is women that wanted out of that for power and money. It has not helped society even if men now are for it.... protecting their own interests.

I did mean reduce. Thank you.

Why do you think such dependencies exist? Women are pushing through barriers created by patriarchy.

I am a woman and I'm no less than my husband. I have different strengths and weaknesses, but, I expect to not be denied opportunity because I'm a woman or treated poorly because of my gender.

With this said, I'm a woman who also embraces certain familial constructs. But, it's a choice. My voice is as loud in my marriage as my husband's. I was safe and productive when I was alone.

I know of women that brag about the fact that in their shop NO men work. So why should I feel sorry for women when it turns out the kettle is just as black as the pot?

What you're describing here seems to me to be possibly quite far removed from the examples of extremism and oppression that I've provided.
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
... which is why Christian scripture says that women should remain silent in church.

Is hypocrisy a sin in your religion?
Yes-.
But this message
Now Christianity accepted evolution, women participate in all areas of life
There is no Christian text refusing to share this
Christian requests cooperation between men and women as members of the Church of Christ
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
What? That I dare project myself as being of equal importance to men? I sure as hell hope that this is what you're gathering from me.



I work hard and am capable of supporting myself. My husband and I chose each other and choose to work towards mutual goals as partners. Naturally, each has strengths and weaknesses. But, I'm not subordinate to him in any way. I'm free to aspire towards my own goals.

I know that many Muslim marriages operate under the same concepts. I've listened to some remarkably strong and independent Muslim women who genuinely love their God and the lives that they lead.

My comments are not directed towards these types of women. My comments are directed towards those who are treated like no more than cattle or possessions.

I've always had the right to express myself freely. What part of you played in paving this way for women in the United States?



I did mean reduce. Thank you.

Why do you think such dependencies exist? Women are pushing through barriers created by patriarchy.

I am a woman and I'm no less than my husband. I have different strengths and weaknesses, but, I expect to not be denied opportunity because I'm a woman or treated poorly because of my gender.

With this said, I'm a woman who also embraces certain familial constructs. But, it's a choice. My voice is as loud in my marriage as my husband's. I was safe and productive when I was alone.



What you're describing here seems to me to be possibly quite far removed from the examples of extremism and oppression that I've provided.
1. Muslim States not Muslim Anba talasoun the personal freedoms
2. we are talking about the teachings of Islam
3. Islam rejects equality
4. missing woman's mind and religion
5. the device is equal to the faeces
6. women are the property of a Muslim man
7. hit the woman is from the teachings of Islam
8. I am talking about the teachings and laws of Islam
9. Western Muslim movement of mirror image of women in Muslim countries
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
You don't consider women being herded underneath fabric like cattle for the purpose of being raped or worse, oppressive?

I know that this type of situation doesn't represent all of Islam. But, when a woman is abused and/or is denied choice and dignity - a significant element of oppression presents.
Are you going to reference those words. Because at the moment they are empty.
And if you don't think it is all Muslims that are like that, then why not cite what good they do so we have a balanced view of things, otherwise people can get the wrong idea of a certain group of people you know
 
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