Do you as a Muslim believe in women's equality?

[Robert.Evans]

1. the word of God, Muslim wise
-You arein theWest-havefreedom-
My wordsare very clear-.-
The legacy ofwomenhalfthe inheritance ofmen.
And also there is a great injustice to women in Islamic inheritance law.

Only if you judge by money alone.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

We see marriage as a religious obligation. It is 1/2 of our worship

This doesn't change my point. Regardless if it is a religious obligation or not why can a man marry an infidel but a woman may not?

The ruling is designed to protect a woman's wealth. typically a woman will buy gold jewelry. A man is not permitted to own or wear gold jewlry. This makes it very difficult for a man to marry a woman for her money.

Either way it is still an inequality issue.

 

[Woodrow LI]

This doesn't change my point. Regardless if it is a religious obligation or not why can a man marry an infidel but a woman may not?



Either way it is still an inequality issue.

A Muslim woman has to support her Husbands religion.
If she marries a non-Muslim she has to support his religion. If a Muslim supports another religion that is apostasy and they have left Islam It is not possible for a Muslim woman to remain Muslim if she marries a non-Muslim

If a Muslim man marries a non-Muslim woman he does not have to support her religion. He does not have to leave Islam and follow her religion. He can remain Muslim

 

[Monk Of Reason]

A Muslim woman has to support her Husbands religion.
If she marries a non-Muslim she has to support his religion. If a Muslim supports another religion that is apostasy and they have left Islam It is not possible for a Muslim woman to remain Muslim if she marries a non-Muslim

If a Muslim man marries a non-Muslim woman he does not have to support her religion. He does not have to leave Islam and follow her religion. He can remain Muslim

Why does a Muslim man not have to support his wife's religion?

 

[Woodrow LI]

Why does a Muslim man not have to support his wife's religion?

He does if she is Muslim, but if she is not Muslim he is not to support it.
Call it a discouragement for non-Muslim women to marry a Muslim man. That is something I would never advise a non-Muslim woman to do if she is strong in her religious beliefs. It will be quite difficult for he to practice her faith.
Perhaps that is one reason Jews forbid Jewish women from marrying Muslims as do some Christian denominations.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

He does if she is Muslim, but if she is not Muslim he is not to support it.
Call it a discouragement for non-Muslim women to marry a Muslim man. That is something I would never advise a non-Muslim woman to do if she is strong in her religious beliefs. It will be quite difficult for he to practice her faith.
Perhaps that is one reason Jews forbid Jewish women from marrying Muslims as do some Christian denominations.

Then you have simply admitted to me that there is inequality between the men and the women in terms of their religion. Women must respect the husband's religion but it is not necessary for a man to respect the wife's. Why is that?

And there is no dogmatic rule in either Christianity or Judaism against marring non-christians or non-jews. It is looked down upon in some circles yes.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Then you have simply admitted to me that there is inequality between the men and the women in terms of their religion. Women must respect the husband's religion but it is not necessary for a man to respect the wife's. Why is that?

And there is no dogmatic rule in either Christianity or Judaism against marring non-christians or non-jews. It is looked down upon in some circles yes.

A Jew is forbidden from marrying a non-Jew
Intermarriage

It is forbidden for a Jew to marry a non-Jew. This sin is punishable by karet.8 In addition, the Talmud says9 that a man who commits this sin loses the spiritual protection of the brit milah—the circumcision, the covenant of Abraham.

Even if a Jew and a non-Jew have a wedding ceremony, the marriage is deemed invalid under Jewish Law.10 In the case when a child is born, he or she will not be considered Jewish if the mother is a non-Jew.11
SOURCE Permitted Marriages - Parshat Acharei - Mitzvahs & Traditions
Although it does seem some non-torah observant Jews allow Jewish men to marry Gentile women

When I was Catholic in the 1940s it was forbidden for a catholic to marry a non Catholic even if they were another Christian denomination. Catholics back then only considered a catholic church marriage to be a valid marriage and for that both had to be catholic. In Catholicism and orthodoxy marriage is a religious sacrament and only members of the faith can participate.
Even today you will find most Christians forbid marriage with a non-Christian

The Bible is actually much more direct about marrying unbelievers than has been indicated to this point. The Old Testament specifically forbids God's people from marrying "foreign wives":

"Now therefore, make confession to the LORD God of your fathers and do His will; and separate yourselves from the peoples of the land and from the foreign wives." (Ezra 10:11)

The Old Testament contains other verses that prohibit marrying unbelievers, including examples of those who broke the command and were led astray by their wives (e.g., Solomon in his later years).17 In the New Testament, Paul specifically says that a woman may marry whomever she wishes, but "only in the Lord," clearly referring to those who are followers of the Lord Jesus Christ.18 So, the New Testament makes it clear that believers are only to marry fellow believers.
Dating a non-Christian?

Although dating of Christians and non-Christians is not specifically handled in the Bible, it is clear that such an action is asking for trouble. An unbeliever who practices Christian-like morality is going to be attractive to a Christian. However, the chances that such a person will become a Christian, allowing the Christian to marry him/her is statistically remote. "Missionary dating" often results in years of conflict and usually ends in broken hearts.
SOURCE http://www.godandscience.org/

Muslims, Jews and Christianity all discourage different faith marriage. Muslims are just a little more willing to allow it in some circumstances.

On a personal basis I discourage all mixed faith marriages and think they all are a potential disaster.
Felt that way when I was Catholic. Felt that way when I was Protestant felt that way when I was Atheist and still feel that way as a Muslim

 

[Monk Of Reason]

A Jew is forbidden from marrying a non-Jew
Intermarriage

It is forbidden for a Jew to marry a non-Jew. This sin is punishable by karet.8 In addition, the Talmud says9 that a man who commits this sin loses the spiritual protection of the brit milah—the circumcision, the covenant of Abraham.

Even if a Jew and a non-Jew have a wedding ceremony, the marriage is deemed invalid under Jewish Law.10 In the case when a child is born, he or she will not be considered Jewish if the mother is a non-Jew.11
SOURCE Permitted Marriages - Parshat Acharei - Mitzvahs & Traditions
Although it does seem some non-torah observant Jews allow Jewish men to marry Gentile women

When I was Catholic in the 1940s it was forbidden for a catholic to marry a non Catholic even if they were another Christian denomination. Catholics back then only considered a catholic church marriage to be a valid marriage and for that both had to be catholic. In Catholicism and orthodoxy marriage is a religious sacrament and only members of the faith can participate.
Even today you will find most Christians forbid marriage with a non-Christian

The Bible is actually much more direct about marrying unbelievers than has been indicated to this point. The Old Testament specifically forbids God's people from marrying "foreign wives":

"Now therefore, make confession to the LORD God of your fathers and do His will; and separate yourselves from the peoples of the land and from the foreign wives." (Ezra 10:11)

The Old Testament contains other verses that prohibit marrying unbelievers, including examples of those who broke the command and were led astray by their wives (e.g., Solomon in his later years).17 In the New Testament, Paul specifically says that a woman may marry whomever she wishes, but "only in the Lord," clearly referring to those who are followers of the Lord Jesus Christ.18 So, the New Testament makes it clear that believers are only to marry fellow believers.
Dating a non-Christian?

Although dating of Christians and non-Christians is not specifically handled in the Bible, it is clear that such an action is asking for trouble. An unbeliever who practices Christian-like morality is going to be attractive to a Christian. However, the chances that such a person will become a Christian, allowing the Christian to marry him/her is statistically remote. "Missionary dating" often results in years of conflict and usually ends in broken hearts.
SOURCE http://www.godandscience.org/

Muslims, Jews and Christianity all discourage different faith marriage. Muslims are just a little more willing to allow it in some circumstances.

On a personal basis I discourage all mixed faith marriages and think they all are a potential disaster.
Felt that way when I was Catholic. Felt that way when I was Protestant felt that way when I was Atheist and still feel that way as a Muslim

Then answer me this. Is it more or less wrong for a Man to marry an Atheist woman than an woman to marry an Atheist man?

 

[Woodrow LI]

Then answer me this. Is it more or less wrong for a Man to marry an Atheist woman than an woman to marry an Atheist man?

either would be a mistake, in my opinion.
But I think a Marriage of an Atheist man marrying a Theist woman would have a better chance of lasting than one where an atheist woman married a Theist man.

Simple reason there is no such thing as an equal marriage, one is always dominat. In most cases the male will be dominate. I think it would be easier for a theist woman to tolerate an atheist husband than for a theist Husband to tolerate an Atheist wife.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

either would be a mistake, in my opinion.
But I think a Marriage of an Atheist man marrying a Theist woman would have a better chance of lasting than one where an atheist woman married a Theist man.

Simple reason there is no such thing as an equal marriage, one is always dominat. In most cases the male will be dominate. I think it would be easier for a theist woman to tolerate an atheist husband than for a theist Husband to tolerate an Atheist wife.

I disagree fundamentally that there cannot be an equal marriage.

 

[Debater Slayer]

They are not , you just see it that wya.

If reiterating throughout your posts that men and women should be treated differently and that women should stay home not to compete with men for jobs, among other things, is not sexist, then what is sexist?

I could say, however, that words like that are just quick ways of throwing mud at someone, that can mislead others. It is basically name calling. If you want to say something, then say it. Don't name call when you don't understand. Fundamentally, men and women are different. Are you to call God s-xist? Are right, I remember, you are ''imagining'' that there is no heaven! Why it is you would be glad to die, I have no idea.

1) I don't believe in your scripture or god.

2) I think no heaven would be far better than a heaven populated with people who hold beliefs like yours.

Doing the best for society is being there for kids. If you have no kids, it being there to help other mothers. It is interacting with them on a higher level. It is giving them greater social skills and interpersonal skills so we don't have such an aggressive mindset on young men (who form gangs) and which permeates women also. We now have 15 year old girls forcing younger girls to perform certain acts for boys. This was unheard of in my time, and it is not just that it is now better reported. You use that phrase ''doing the best for soceity'' just the same way you say I use it.

Provide evidence that crime has increased since women started becoming more involved in the workforce.

FGM?? No idea what it means.

Surprise, surprise... you don't even know about female genital mutilation?

By now we should have a really advances soceity. But we still have gangs, fighting, drunks, kids running over cars, carrying knives.... all of this should be dealt at at a young age. That is a failure of mothers, women, and men to show that is what they should be doing. Instead they judge themselves by us... as if we are someone to judge by. But that all adds up to power and money... greed.

Again, provide evidence that any of the above has to do with gender equality or women's increasing involvement in the workforce. Your statements are still coming across as resoundingly sexist.

 

[Draka]

What about society as a whole and the family? Oh, I remember, you're not interested. You want power and money, right?
The family is important but not to you it seems. It's all about what job you have and how much power. I guess that is the penalty men have to take for making it all so easy women can do it now, eh.
It is part of the divine print (if you are interested) and is what we all pay for. I think it is a great shame that women are now so aggressive and money orientated just because they are so intimidated around men... men that they can't control that is through usual means.

You are truly laughable. Just how much money and power do you think a petty officer in the Navy makes/has? It was called serving my country. Providing a valuable service in a position I was the most useful in. It was about the pride I took in my work. But I guess you know nothing about such things as holding a job for you means nothing but "money and power". I was contributing, many jobs contribute to society, but that obviously means nothing to you. Hey, care to answer how single childless women having jobs, or entering into military service is bad for society and family? And why is a woman financially contributing or supporting their family a bad thing? It has nothing to do with intimidation, it has everything to do with self-sufficiency and contributing.

Open your eyes, your mind, and get a clue.

 

[SomeRandom]

Yeah that's it, lets justgo for money money money, and never mind anyone else. Wonderful attitude.

I'm sorry. But I live in a society where it is impossible to live without money. Since it is the cornerstone of our trading agreements. I am not very fond of the idea of living on the street, naked and begging for food. I am also not fond of the idea of getting paid for doing nothing. You'll find no Centerlink/welfare bludger here, mate.

So I, as a person, apply for a job. If I happen to be the best applicant for said job, as a human being, I will take that job and get monetary compensation for fulfilling the job requirements. I don't know what economy you live in where it affords you the luxury of whinging that you did not get a job simply for being outperformed by more qualified persons for said job (never mind certified qualifications, experience and skill level.)
But in the market today, you either do your hardest to secure your job, whether that be acquiring qualifications or work experience or go on Probation and prove your salt to your employer or you go without. Regardless of gender. Simple. (Of course, that is not counting people who do not work out of no fault of their own. Those people ought to be supported.)

I fail to see why women supporting themselves financially is a bad thing. Contributing to the economy and all that jazz. Unless you are so weak and insecure in your "masculinity" that working women actually threatens you? That it mate? Can't hack a bit of healthy competition?

 

[Draka]

Really, quite funny here, but if women didn't work our economy would crash as we wouldn't have enough people in jobs that need to be filled. To imply that women working takes jobs from men you would have to say that the amount of women working is equal to the amount of men out of work and that's simply absurd. There are far more women in the workforce than men could replace. If women didn't work, to contribute, to support, then our economy and financial system would crash. And exactly where would that leave society and families in general? Would that actually be better? I just don't think so, but then, I'm thinking logically, unlike some.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I'd like somebody to answer my previous question regarding Islam basing gender equality upon a construct of hetero normative procreation marital models.

Is Islam as a religion a proponent of this particular sexual economy? That woman provides gestation while man provides shelter, food, and protection? And in so doing, does this assume equal contribution to civilization as a whole from both genders?

If so, how does this address gender equality for infertility, post-menopausal women, queer men and women, and trans men and women?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Really, quite funny here, but if women didn't work our economy would crash as we wouldn't have enough people in jobs that need to be filled. To imply that women working takes jobs from men you would have to say that the amount of women working is equal to the amount of men out of work and that's simply absurd. There are far more women in the workforce than men could replace. If women didn't work, to contribute, to support, then our economy and financial system would crash. And exactly where would that leave society and families in general? Would that actually be better? I just don't think so, but then, I'm thinking logically, unlike some.

I've heard arguments that jobs are open everywhere, but that our youth are too lazy to take them.

In the same breath, I've heard that jobs are nowhere to be found because of affirmative action, women's presence in the workforce, and because of enforced diversity.

Life must be so hard when having to compete harder for a job in a diverse population where your employment is not nearly as guaranteed as when you only had to compete against employees who look like you. You actually have to qualify and risk being unemployed like everyone else.

Awwww...

 

[dawny0826]

1. the word of God, Muslim wise
-You arein theWest-havefreedom-
My wordsare very clear-.-
The legacy ofwomenhalfthe inheritance ofmen.
And also there is a great injustice to women in Islamic inheritance law.

If you were making sense to me, I would not have commented as I did.

Thank you for taking time to clarify.

I am aware that there are Muslims who believe as above. My question to you is whether or not you believe this type of injustice to be justified?

 

[dawny0826]

dawny0826 Well-Known Member wrote-
Equal importance as in a woman is deserving of the same manner of dignity and opportunity as would be extended to a man. I construed your post to imply that women are less important than men
Women in Islam are mind and Dean-
Go to the instructor--and remember him-
This is your ProphetMuhammad!!!!!
.

What does "mind and Dean" refer to?

 

[dawny0826]

dawny0826 Well-Known Member
Wellyou areMuslim-.-
Go toany Sheikhof Islam..
The ask-it
1-in Paradise--your husband enjoy the nymphs-the albakrat-.
2. you are what you'll do there???
Doyou have thenymphslikeyour husband??
3. your husband **** nymphs in paradise??
You arewhatyou'll do??
Do you seehim-.-
4. I speak of Islamic ideology-.
5. know that Muslim women in the West have considerable freedom
But this is not due to the teachings of Islamic ideology
6. your freedom from ideological algharbiya
7. whatever the alailogih-.
Atheist or Christian, but it is the best of Islamic ideology

I am not Muslim. The aforementioned makes little sense to me.

 

[dawny0826]

That would include Christians Buddists Atheists and men and women in general, no doubt. At least I would hope so.

But not all Muslim women think that dressing in traditional dress, and having traditional values is bad. Nor do they see that their mothers and grandmothers were any less just because they did not walk round in high heels with a see through blouse and plenty of money, which is perhaps how you view sucess. Some don't. Some see what is important, and that is people, family, and not money and power. Great shame how the western women have fallen so low.

You're right. Not all Muslim women take issue with traditional dress. I take no issue with Muslim women who choose tradition. As I've stated many times now, my issue is with oppression, abuse and harm. This applies to men, women and people from various walks.

We're talking about Muslims and equality. I've no problem with the majority of Muslims I encounter. I respect their right to live according to their convictions. And if she's shrouded behind fabric and it's by choice - I respect her choice even though I do not understand it personally.

Success can mean different things to many people.

Though I agree that family is far more important than success of the materialistic and worldly type, I have to acknowledge that not everyone has the same values as I do nor do they have to. Great shame on how judgmental people can be.