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Do You Believe In Dragons?

Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Primordial Annihilator said:
Of that you cannot be 100% certain for the reasons I have already stated. ;)
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Dinosaurs as they existed at that time do not exist today.

Birds are different, just as we are not reptiles.

Birds ARE dinosaurs...you don't seem to appreciate that there is no real distinction...biologically speaking.
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Not really, just as we aren't reptiles, even though we share the same common ancestor.

Today, we have a several types of complex life: birds, insects, mammals, fish, reptiles, etc. Dinosaurs are among this classification; there is no evidence that any creature that fit that classification has survived to this day.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Midnight Pete said:
What do you mean by that? Do you think I don't know that you're a covert atheist?
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Your insight is just as piercing as the OP.

I must be an atheist because you say that I am. Thanks.

I have a thread devoted to such comments, and you can easily find it.
 
Midnight Pete

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
I said: Legends are not quite the same as religious narrative.

And then you said: That's what you think.:D



What did you mean by that?
 
Primordial Annihilator

Primordial Annihilator

Well-Known Member
Riverwolf said:
Today, we have a several types of complex life: birds, insects, mammals, fish, reptiles, etc. Dinosaurs are among this classification; there is no evidence that any creature that fit that classification has survived to this day.
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Taxonomy Riverwolf is not an exact science...I would prefer to construct taxonomical definitions based on molecular biological evidence....not the outward form of fossils...others differ.

Birds are the descendants of Theropod dinosaurs, which were mostly feathered, bipedal, laid eggs, regulated their internal body temperature as birds do and in fact the only main difference between them from a physiological viewpoint is that theropods had teeth.

To say that birds mammals reptiles and dinosaurs are different 'classes' illustrates your comprehension of taxonomy.

They are different clades...except reptiles, which are not a clade unlike Birds Insects and Mammals...the only reason dinosaurs (Therapods at least) and birds are not in the same clade is because of arbitratory taxonomical considerations.
 
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Primordial Annihilator

Primordial Annihilator

Well-Known Member
Riverwolf said:
Not really, just as we aren't reptiles, even though we share the same common ancestor.
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The relative difference between a human and a snake is vast...the difference between a sparrow and tyrannosaur (genotypically and phenotypically) much less so by comparison...the molecular clock makes this even clearer.

Your understanding is rather flawed...biology is no simple exercise.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Midnight Pete said:
I said: Legends are not quite the same as religious narrative.

And then you said: That's what you think.:D

What did you mean by that?
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That's not all you said, and I invite discussion on that topic here - http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/philosophy/82099-why-angellous-not-christian.html

Legend often is the same as religious discourse (or narrative, as you put it). All we need is a religious element to the story... and come to think of it, it might be difficult to find legends that aren't religious discourse.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Nerthus said:
Well, obviously there is a family, there wouldn't just be one would there :rolleyes:
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Yes... because a single plieosaur living undetected in a Scottish lake would be silly. ;)

Willamena said:
Um, not according to wikipedia. "Omnivores, insectivores and carrion-eaters survived the extinction event..." The "pizza oven" was only over a portion of the surface.
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I'll have to re-check my source, but AFAIK, the "pizza oven" effect occurred everywhere that debris fell... which would be everywhere that you can find an iridium layer at the K-T boundary... which (IIRC) is the entire surface of the Earth.

Primordial Annihilator said:
Please do not lecture me on the KT event I am quite conversant with the theory. :D

65 million years is long enough, plenty of time, for an isolated large dinosaur or reptile (species) to re populate or evolve into a larger species to say that you cant be 100% certain.

As for dinosaur fossil evidence I am sure you are acutely aware that the fossil record only shows perhaps 5-10% of the actual biodiversity of all life on the planet that has ever existed...due to the many environmental prerequisites of fossilization.

So particularly as far as fossils are concerned matey a lack of evidence for a thing is not proof of its non existence.
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So it's the "dragon of the gaps". Gotcha.
 
Primordial Annihilator

Primordial Annihilator

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
So it's the "dragon of the gaps". Gotcha.
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Not really...I am just saying it is absurd to make unsubstantiated comments.

Such as no dinosaurs or their descendants survived extinction...which is nonsense as Birds are descendants of dinosaurs and secondly no one can be 100% certain every extinct thing is actually extinct...especially when we are discussing creatures that may have left relics for our ancient ancestors to finish off.

The recent discovery of the Colecanthe proved that stupidity of that presumption.

Do not put too much faith in fossils....never a good idea.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Primordial Annihilator said:
Not really...I am just saying it is absurd to make unsubstantiated comments.

Such as no dinosaurs or their descendants survived extinction...which is nonsense as Birds are descendants of dinosaurs and secondly no one can be 100% certain every extinct thing is extinct.

The recent discovery of the Colecanthe proved that stupidity of that presumption.
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Just maybe that can be demonstrated in the fossil record. :rolleyes:
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Primordial Annihilator said:
Not really...I am just saying it is absurd to make unsubstantiated comments.

Such as no dinosaurs or their descendants survived extinction...which is nonsense as Birds are descendants of dinosaurs and secondly no one can be 100% certain every extinct thing is actually extinct...especially when we are discussing creatures that may have left relics for our ancient ancestors to finish off.

The recent discovery of the Colecanthe proved that stupidity of that presumption.

Do not put too much faith in fossils....never a good idea.
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Fossils are only one type of evidence. In the case of a fantastical creature running around somewhere, the best piece of evidence would be a living specimen.

And your comparison to the Coelacanth doesn't work, because of one key aspect of your argument: you're claiming that dragon legends are the product of actual dragons. IOW, there are (or were) people in the world with actual knowledge of dragons; dragons do occasionally interact with people.

It does no good for your claim if all the dragons are tucked away out of sight in some inaccessible corner of the world where humans never go, because this doesn't allow for the originators of dragon myths to have actual knowledge of dragons to use as the basis for their stories.

If dragon myths are based on actual dragons, then it's perfectly reasonable to conclude that some sort of evidence for actual dragons lies somewhere within normal human experience.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
fossils explain valid history, no one said every creature was destroyed.

many have survived, many did not

alligators, crocadiles go way back, most dragon stories can be traced back to ancient myths.

whats your real point here
 
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