Audie
Veteran Member
As long as you mean imaginary teams, maybe playing Martian stickball, yes.
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Do you believe the Bible is God's word?
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
InChrist
Free4ever
Thanks for the hint, but it’s obvious to me that I am not infallible. I believe the Creator of heaven and earth, an omniscient, eternal Being is infallible, though.
Audie
Veteran Member
Of course. We all make, say, math mistakes.
Let the soufflé go poof.
But you appear to claim to infallible
Knowledge in certain regards.
Or maybe you are uncertain, allow for being
mistaken, there is no god, that
you are simply and completely wrong in all related
beliefs.
Which, if you don’t mind, is it?
Neither God the Father, nor God the Son, nor God the Holy Spirit fit your obviously-biased description.
Quoting Richard Dawkins on a religious forum is ridiculous.
And as a self-professed "former Christian", you should read these words carefully: "For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God and the miracles of the coming age, and then have committed apostasy, to renew them again to repentance, since they [you!] are crucifying the Son of God for themselves all over again and holding him up to contempt. For the ground that has soaked up the rain that frequently falls on[k] it and yields useful vegetation for those who tend it receives a blessing from God. But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is useless and about to be cursed; its fate is to be burned." Hebrews 6:4-8
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
God is the Father, Jesus is the Son, and the Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God, whose luminous rays emanated from Jesus.
There is no such thing as God the Son or God the Holy Spirit in reality, only in the Trinity doctrine.
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Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I've met many other Christians who grew up in a Christian home where they learned early on in life to never question God, the Bible, or any other Christian-related beliefs that they were taught, because it would upset their parents, their extended family, their Christian friends, their pastor, and the rest of the church congregation. I believe that it is then that a person learns how to be a genuine critical thinker by honestly reexamining their beliefs and reading the Bible without wearing the rose-colored glasses that they were forced and coerced to wear during their Christian upbringing. It takes a lot of courage.
I learned at a young age that questioning God was considered a grave sin among other Christians. So, I learned to keep my mouth shut and keep all of my doubts about God and the Bible to myself until I was living on my own and mustered up enough courage to reexamine the Bible, my beliefs about God, and everything else I had been taught as a devout Christian. Therefore, I know from personal experience that renouncing a genuinely held belief in God and Christian indoctrination can be frightening. I believed in God for forty years, so it was frightening to me, but I eventually learned how to think for myself and how to stand on my own two feet. I've also learned that I don't need to believe in God in order to be a good person, make moral decisions, and take care of myself and my family. I see my former belief as nothing more than an emotional crutch that was detrimental to my own mental health.
I'm absolutely convinced that I'm far better off in my life now that I've renounced my belief in God and my Christian faith. It was a very liberating and positive experience that has profoundly changed my life. I wish I had done this years ago. It was very difficult for me to forsake my Christian faith and let go of my belief in God. It was a matter of being completely honest with myself. I found the courage within myself to face my reality and let go of my Christian beliefs. I eventually learned how to care for myself and my family without feeling the need to rely on my faith in God. I realized that my faith in God was nothing more than false hope and an emotional crutch. I understood that if I was ever going to truly heal emotionally and change my life for the better, I needed to let go of this detrimental crutch that was ruining my life. I had to let go of it all. I understand now that Christianity was a prison for me.
There is a scripture that states, "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart" (Jeremiah 29:13). Well, I genuinely believed in God and sought him with all my heart for forty years, but I never found him. I did, however, find disappointment, sadness, fear, confusion, and a constant feeling of hopelessness during the years I believed in God and was a devout Christian. I'm elated to say that I'm now free of what I consider to be the entrapment of my Christian faith. So I have no doubt that I am considerably better off in my life now that I have let go of the belief, faith, and false hope I had in God.
So you have willingly given up eternal life. That's some mistake!
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
According to my beliefs you have also willingly given up eternal life. That's some mistake!
“The Book of God is wide open, and His Word is summoning mankind unto Him. No more than a mere handful, however, hath been found willing to cleave to His Cause, or to become the instruments for its promotion. These few have been endued with the Divine Elixir that can, alone, transmute into purest gold the dross of the world, and have been empowered to administer the infallible remedy for all the ills that afflict the children of men. No man can obtain everlasting life, unless he embraceth the truth of this inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation.”
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I haven't given up eternal life, only the preferred doctrinal beliefs of evangelical Christianity regarding it. In my opinion, the wrong spiritual path for me is to believe that the Bible's depictions of the afterlife are true when, in fact, I have no valid reason to believe them. Given everything I've experienced for the last 45 years of my life, I genuinely believe it would be intellectually dishonest of me to accept the Bible's depictions of the afterlife as absolute truth.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Christians do not even know what eternal life is according to their own Bible.
Most Christians believe it means living forever in heaven and JW Christians believe it means living forever on earth.
It is kind of sad when a Baha'i who was never a Christian and never studied the Bible has to point out Bible verses to Christians.
John 17:3 says, "And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent".
Jesus defined eternal life as knowing the only true God, and Jesus Christ. That is all there is to it.
Jesus also said who will attain to eternal life, and it is not what most Christians believe, since the Christian doctrine says all you have to believe that Jesus died for your sins. That is not what Jesus said.
Matthew 25
45 Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
I do not even know how the Bible depicts the afterlife, I only know what Christians believe about the afterlife, and those two are not necessarily the same. Anyone can make the Bible say whatever they want to believe, and that is what I think Christians do.
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And of course, you, in your "wisdom", don't.
This is like somebody boasting about a failed marriage. "I tried it but it wasn't for me. My marriage was a failure, therefore marriage itself is a failure."
You tried and couldn't make it as a Christian because you lack faith. IMHO, that is nothing to brag about. In fact, it's tragic.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I'm re-posting this because I corrected some grammatical mistakes in my prior post.
Before I continue, I'd like to state unequivocally that no amount of disparaging remarks, obnoxious insults, shaming, or guilt-tripping from judgmental Christians would ever convince me to become a Christian again. I'm not sure how I can say it more emphatically: I don't want to ever be a Christian again.
In my opinion, it isn't a failure on the part of a Christian to genuinely reexamine their doctrinal beliefs and preferred biblical interpretation. In my life, this personal reflection eventually led me to renounce my belief in God and Christian faith. My deconversion gradually began as I was training to be a street preacher and evangelism team leader. My growing doubts about God, Jesus, and the Bible became even more substantial as I helped my nephew earn his Master of Theological Studies (MTS) degree. He was studying to become an ordained minister, but his extensive study of the Bible led him to eventually deconvert, as I did. We both believed that extensively studying the Bible would strengthen our faith, but we studied our way out of believing in God, Jesus, and the Bible. We've referred to this experience as taking off our rose-colored glasses. It dramatically changed his life as it did mine. It changed our lives.
I've noticed that some Christians seem to readily enjoy boasting about how they supposedly have "spiritual discernment" to properly understand the Bible, whereas non-Christians do not, but what they seem to forget or stubbornly ignore is the fact that I (and many other non-Christians) were once Christians and are well-versed in it. We read it, studied it, and prayed for spiritual guidance when we were Christians. We didn't forget what we had learned when we renounced our Christian faith. We retained that knowledge and are now able to use it to challenge the credibility of the Bible. During the years I was a devout Christian, I thought that reading and studying the Bible on a daily basis would strengthen and deepen my faith in God and Jesus, but all I did was eventually study my way out of believing in God, Jesus, and the Bible. I will admit that it was a real eye-opener for me, but I'm glad I stayed the course.
I diligently read and studied the Bible on a daily basis throughout the thirty years I was a devout Christian. I extensively studied it and Christian theology while training to be a street preacher and evangelism team leader. In fact, I was a very effective street preacher and evangelism team leader for several years. I led many people to Christ, which I now deeply regret. I also studied the Bible and Christian theology in depth while assisting my nephew in his extended theological studies to become an ordained minister. He was studying to earn a Master of Theological Studies (MTS) degree. He eventually studied his way out of believing in the Bible and God, just as I did. A few weeks after I renounced my faith, he told me that he also renounced his after extensively studying the Bible and Christian theology with me. And to this day, he doesn't regret his decision, and I certainly don't regret mine either.
I genuinely believe that I'm far better off in my life without what I consider to be the entrapment of Christianity. I diligently sought God for forty years through daily prayer, worship, Bible studies, and ministries, only to end up disillusioned and heartbroken. As I've previously stated, it felt like a prison to me. I also believe that renouncing my Christian faith was one of the best decisions I've ever made for my mental health. I don't regret it in the least.
I never felt the sense of inner peace in my life that other Christians claimed to feel in theirs. On the contrary, I consistently felt sadness, confusion, and hopelessness. In fact, I never felt peace until after I renounced my belief in God and disavowed my Christian faith. It took some time for me to finally feel it. Prior to this, I had never experienced personal tranquility or freedom from emotional bondage, despite years of sincere prayer, daily reading and studying the Bible, genuine dedication to serving God in church ministries, as well as being a devoted street preacher and evangelism team leader.
I merely went through the motions and played church in the dire hope that I would start to feel something—anything that indicated to me that God is real and that he cares about me. I was desperate to know the truth. I appeared to be a joyful Christian on the outside, but on the inside, I was deeply bereft of hope, joy, and inner peace. I was constantly hurting and suffering emotionally, and no one else knew about my personal misery other than my husband. I am not exaggerating when I say that being a Christian was a nightmare for me. I'm relieved to be free, and I have no desire whatsoever to ever return to it.
I further explained my exodus out of Christianity in the following post.
Eternity Alone
I find biblical Christianity extremely plausible and rational. The indocrinated tend to think so. Critical thinkers disagree. No Christian can explain how anything in Christianity is plausibel and rational. No believer in religious lore does so based on facts and sound reasoning. But...
www.religiousforums.com
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Good for you!
I cannot understand why anyone would ever want to be a Christian, but as I recall you did not become one by choice, you were a victim of circumstance.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Maybe you believe you know but you don't know what the afterlife will be like.
Nobody knows that and nobody will know that until they die and enter the spiritual world.
The reason nobody knows is because God had never revealed that information.
"The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men. The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose of guiding mankind to the straight Path of Truth. The purpose underlying Their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High."
“Know thou that every hearing ear, if kept pure and undefiled, must, at all times and from every direction, hearken to the voice that uttereth these holy words: “Verily, we are God’s, and to Him shall we return.” The mysteries of man’s physical death and of his return have not been divulged, and still remain unread. By the righteousness of God! Were they to be revealed, they would evoke such fear and sorrow that some would perish, while others would be so filled with gladness as to wish for death, and beseech, with unceasing longing, the one true God—exalted be His glory—to hasten their end.
Death proffereth unto every confident believer the cup that is life indeed. It bestoweth joy, and is the bearer of gladness. It conferreth the gift of everlasting life.
As to those that have tasted of the fruit of man’s earthly existence, which is the recognition of the one true God, exalted be His glory, their life hereafter is such as We are unable to describe. The knowledge thereof is with God, alone, the Lord of all worlds.”
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, that is not the reason that @Sgt. Pepper left Christianity.
Since she is my good friend I know the real reason, as she has described it on this forum numerous times.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
Good for you!
I cannot understand why anyone would ever want to be a Christian, but as I recall you did not become one by choice, you were a victim of circumstance.
Yes, I was indoctrinated in Christianity from a young age. I began to genuinely believe in God when I was almost 7 years old, after I went to church with my aunt. Going to church was a means of escape from the abuse and mistreatment I suffered at home at the hands of my adoptive Christian mother. I was barely seven years old when I first prayed to God, asking him to stop her from hurting me. I remember telling God that she hurts me really bad whenever she hits me. I told him that she hits me and screams at me, and she told me that I was a bad child. There were many times when I feared for my life.
However, God never answered that prayer or any of the countless prayers I prayed as a child and teenager, asking him to protect me from her and older brother, who both would hit me, bully me, degrade me, and threaten me. But, like my extended family, the neighbors, my teachers at school, the pastor and congregation at church, and everyone else in town who knew I was being abused, God never lifted a finger to defend and save me from being abused at home and bullied at school on a daily basis. Despite the abuse and bullying I was suffering at home and in school, I still sincerely believed in God and continued to pray to him for most of my life. I recall sitting in church while growing up and listening to a pastor talk about God's love and mercy and how we can pray in Jesus' name and he will help us. I remember thinking about what was wrong with me and why God didn't love me. I didn't understand it.
I remember thinking about how often I sincerely prayed to God (completing the prayer with "in Jesus' name"), asking him to protect me, but nothing ever happened. I was abused at home for 13 1/2 years, and I endured bullying at school for 12 years. I recall some Christians telling me it was my fault that I was abused, bullied, and mistreated while growing up, either because I had unconfessed sin in my life (which evidently prevented God from protecting me) or because I lacked significant faith in God's ability to save me. And while that was hurtful, it was nothing in comparison to having a pastor call me a "cursed soul" and tell me that God hates me and that I suffered abuse because God was punishing me for the sins of my biological parents. He told me that there was nothing I could do to stop God from hating me. I believed him since the Bible states God hates and teaches about generational sins.
Despite all of this, I eventually became a Christian when I was 17, but I finally renounced my Christian faith and belief in God when I was 47. I was finally honest enough to acknowledge and admit to myself that believing in God and having faith and trust in him was completely worthless and a total waste of my time. But I have no doubt that renouncing my belief and faith in God was the best decision that I've ever made for my mental health and emotional well-being. It is only second to the decision I made shortly after turning 18 to confront my abusive mother and brother. I saved myself from all the abuse I endured. God had nothing to do with it. I learned that I don't need God. I've certainly learned that I'm far better off in my life without believing in God.
When I was a Christian, other Christians would tell me that I didn't pray properly, I prayed for the wrong things, I didn't have enough faith in God, and I had unrepented sins in my life that prevented God from answering my prayers. The vast majority of my prayers, however, were asking or pleading with God to help me better cope with my PTSD, which was the result of childhood trauma. I asked for mental stability and relief from the ever-persistent emotional pain. And when I was a child and teenager, I used to pray and ask or plead with God to stop the abuse I was suffering and protect me from my abusive mother and older brother, or I'd pray about the bullying and harassment I was suffering in school. Despite my prayers and my immense faith in God, all of my prayers went unanswered, and I suffered severe abuse for 13 1/2 years and was continuously bullied and harassed for the 12 years I was in school.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I'd like to point out the fact that I was writing my post at the exact time you posted this. Thank you, my good friend.
You remind me of someone who walks out of a Shakesperian play, saying the plot is garbage. I don't think anyone wants to hear about your leaving Christianity over and over and over. It gets really tiresome.
It's like boasting that you dropped out of school and/or you had a bad marriage. Why are you so obsessed with your personal failure?
stvdv
Veteran Member
1) From dualistic POV not all is from God
2) From advaitic' POV not all is from God