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Do you understand the New Testament

F

free spirit

Well-Known Member
TO kATZPUR
Katzpur said:
Oh, come on... Jesus was His own Father?
Click to expand...

strange but yes, Jesus was the Word right!...so that word had to come from somewhere... yes .... and the word become flesh simple. Lets see if i can explain clearly.

John 1 - 1 to 5, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being by him, and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being. in him was life and the life was the light of men.
we were also made in his himage so we can also say.
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with Katzpur and the word was Katzpur. He was in the beginning with katzpur. all things came into being by him, and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being. in him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Katzpur your word is what makes you what you are, if i take away your ability to create thought with words you might be breathing in and out, but you will not be able to create anything so the word in you is your life. And it is exactly the same with God, the answers are closer to us that we could ever imagine.
 
E

emiliano

Well-Known Member
Katzpur said:
Oh, come on... Jesus was His own Father?
Click to expand...

Since scripture says in the beginning, let look at what scripture says about the beginning: Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth
Gen 1:2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] [fn] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
Then God said, released the word and earthly creation began, so “All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made”
Jhn 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.​

Jesus is the word, is the creator. All things came into being by him, and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
 
F

free spirit

Well-Known Member
emiliano said:
since scripture says in the beginning, let look at what scripture says about the beginning: gen 1:1 in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth
gen 1:2 the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] [fn] on the face of the deep. And the spirit of god was hovering over the face of the waters.
gen 1:3 then god said, "let there be light"; and there was light.
then god said, released the word and earthly creation began, so “all things were made through him, and without him nothing was made that was made”
jhn 1:14
and the word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the father, full of grace and truth.​

jesus is the word, is the creator. all things came into being by him, and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being. and the word became flesh and dwelt among us,
Click to expand...

yes that is exactly what i said. God and is word are one, God without the word could have done nothing BECAUSE THE WORD IS THE LIFE OF GOD, as your word is the life in you.
 
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E

emiliano

Well-Known Member
free spirit said:
yes that is exactly what i said. God and is word are one, God without the word could have done nothing BECAUSE THE WORD IS THE LIFE OF GOD, as your word is the life in you.
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I got it! Do you think d that the others did? It was a good post and I tried to help, you are good at these things that make more curious about what you said that happen to you on the other churches.
 
F

free spirit

Well-Known Member
emiliano said:
i got it! Do you think d that the others did? It was a good post and i tried to help, you are good at these things that make more curious about what you said that happen to you on the other churches.
Click to expand...

god is the one that gives understanding, you got it! then god is working on you emiliano.
most christians believe the scriptures without undestanding them, and when one shows them they refuse to believe. They also refuse to use the god given ability to reason.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
free spirit said:
TO SOJOURNER


I had to look up the meaning of the word.
IN A SENSE YES, THE EARLY CHRISTIANS WERE ACCUSED OF IT, AND IT WAS CONSIDERED HERETIC. THAT EXPLAINS TO ME WHY THE EARLY CHURCH WAS PERSECUTED. MY... MY... YOU BROADEN MY UNDERSTANDING THANKS. But i am not looking forward to that, it is frigthening.
Click to expand...
That is not why the early Church was persecuted. Read your history.

If the idea is gnostic and -- therefore, heretical, why do you hold such an idea?
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
emiliano said:
Since scripture says in the beginning, let look at what scripture says about the beginning: Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth
Gen 1:2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] [fn] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
Then God said, released the word and earthly creation began, so “All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made”
Jhn 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.​

Jesus is the word, is the creator. All things came into being by him, and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
Click to expand...
Sorry. That's not how the doctrine of the Trinity works. Jesus is not Creator. The Father is Creator. All thrings were created through him, not by him.
 
F

free spirit

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
That is not why the early Church was persecuted. Read your history.

If the idea is gnostic and -- therefore, heretical, why do you hold such an idea?
Click to expand...
The "gnostic" meaning came to me from you, and came after my understanding of the scriptures. I know that the scriptures have been contaminated by the words of man, and i get into trobles for saying that, for all christian faiths thinks that the scriptures are perfect, BUT I KNOW THAT THEY ARE NOT.
I ask you, am I gnostic and therefore heretic? My problem is explained in my thread "RIGHTLY DIVID THE WORD"
 
AK4

AK4

Well-Known Member
free spirit said:
yes they are one and the same. Only if you start from the beginning you will eventually come to understan haw and why it is so
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No you are wrong freespirit, they are not one and the same. The way they are one and the same is that they are one in spirit. I pray God that He will give you eyes to see what i am going show you, but then again its not me who reveals----

neither knows any man the FATHER, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him" (Matt. 11:27).

Let me help you out a little since you say you know the NT. Grasp this major truth of scripture:

No man has ever seen God at any time" (John 1:18).

"The FATHER Himself, which has sent Me, has born witness of Me. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape"(John 5:37).

"No man has seen God at any time" (I John 4:12).

and one more to further wet your appetite if you really want to know Jesus and His God (notice Jesus has a God)

Re 3:2 - Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God.

Re 3:12 -Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

You will also need to know what it the word god means and that that is not the name of the Father.

EDIT---to make sure you dont think im saying some kind of trinity, no i am not. The doctrine of the trinity is a doctrine of devils
 
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sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
free spirit said:
The "gnostic" meaning came to me from you, and came after my understanding of the scriptures. I know that the scriptures have been contaminated by the words of man, and i get into trobles for saying that, for all christian faiths thinks that the scriptures are perfect, BUT I KNOW THAT THEY ARE NOT.
I ask you, am I gnostic and therefore heretic? My problem is explained in my thread "RIGHTLY DIVID THE WORD"
Click to expand...
Actually, scholarship will show that the texts are fairly well-reserved. Plus, they were originally very fluid -- changes were made quite frequently early on. And since that's the case, we really don't know "what Jesus had in mind," except through the lens of the Church that produced and "perfected" the texts about Jesus, and that told stories about him.

Since the Church is the Body of Christ, in what way can the scriptures be said to have "been corrupted by the words of man," since the scriptures were written, compiled and edited by that Church?

I submit that "knowing," when it is placed as a prerequisite for salvation, is heretical from the understanding of grace.
 
G

gzusfrk

Christian
emiliano said:
Since scripture says in the beginning, let look at what scripture says about the beginning: Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth
Gen 1:2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] [fn] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
Then God said, released the word and earthly creation began, so “All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made”
Jhn 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.​

Jesus is the word, is the creator. All things came into being by him, and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
Click to expand...
John 1:1 The word was God ,not Jesus.
 
AK4

AK4

Well-Known Member
gzusfrk said:
The word was God ,not Jesus.
Click to expand...

No you are wrong too. Jesus is the Word (Re 19:13) and God, but He is not God the Father. God the Father is spirit and invisible and no one has seen or heard His voice at anytime but Jesus has been seen and heard. Besides Jesus came out from God and was first come into existence from Mary. Just notice in the gospels who He always said He came from.

He is Gen 1:1--In (no THE here) Beginning (Beginning in Hebrew is Firstfruits)

so you have

Gen 1:1 In Firstfruit, God created heavens and earth.
 
M

Muhammad Rasulullah

Member
sojourner said:
Sorry. That's not how the doctrine of the Trinity works. Jesus is not Creator. The Father is Creator. All thrings were created through him, not by him.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but I'm confused isn't the Father God and isn't Jesus God. So doesn't that mean Jesus is God the Father? If they all are considered God then they all are the same meaning they all are God and there is no difference between the two. Created through who Jesus or the father? Col 1:16 says something different it says that it was all created by Jesus.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Who is the image of the invisible God? Jesus right.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
By who? According to the bible it is Jesus who created everything not "God the Father."
But from the above quote in genesis it says in the beginning God created everything. God who "the Father" or Jesus?
 
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