Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No .. he is not a rapist in reality .. he is only being CALLED a rapist, because his wife does not want to give him consent
at a particular time.

Sex without consent "at that particular time" is rape.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Wait, why are we killing adulterers again? I don't respect them, but I'm not making the connection for why they need to die

Mmm .. I understand why you would think that.
When we live in a society where it is commonplace, we don't see it for what it is.
It's just a normal part of life .. people do these things.

"these things" have consequences that are far-reaching. They destroy the very fabric of our society,
but we might not perceive.

 

[Soandso]

Mmm .. I understand why you would think that.
When we live in a society where it is commonplace, we don't see it for what it is.
It's just a normal part of life .. people do these things.

"these things" have consequences that are far-reaching. They destroy the very fabric of our society,
but we might not perceive.

So we are killing adulterers because they are bad for society? Don't get me wrong, I dislike cheaters, but there's a lot of things people do that I don't like. Im not sure heart break warrants a death sentence

 

[muhammad_isa]

Sex without consent "at that particular time" is rape.

As I've already said, in a traditional society, it is not.
It is not a question of consent, but one of reasonable behaviour.

Rape is when a woman is attacked by a predator that they are not married to.

 

[muhammad_isa]

So we are killing adulterers because they are bad for society?

That's it .. just like we kill murderers, or chop off the hands of robbers.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As I've already said, in a traditional society, it is not.

By definition, rape is sex without consent.

This is a separate question from whether a particular country's laws recognize spousal rape as a crime.

It is not a question of consent, but one of reasonable behaviour.

Rape is when a woman is attacked by a predator that they are not married to.

Just stop for a minute and re-read what you wrote here.

 

[muhammad_isa]

"Adultery"? Fornication is just sex outside of marriage. Not only should this not be a crime, I don't think it should be seen as bad. Sex outside of marriage is a normal, healthy thing..

..says the atheist..

 

[muhammad_isa]

By definition, rape is sex without consent.

Actually, it isn't .. or should I say wasn't.
The original understanding of rape was when a woman was attacked or coerced to have sex outside of marriage.

Just stop for a minute and re-read what you wrote here.

I know what I wrote.
A marriage contract was originally a religious institution.
It provides implicit consent for sexual intercourse between man and wife.
..and not "today I won't be your wife, but tomorrow I will".

Obviously, a woman would not want to be married to an unreasonable person who cares only about themselves.
..but then I'm not saying that a woman has no choice in the matter.
She does. She can be married to a man of her own choosing.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

..says the atheist..

That's right: we disagree.

Luckily, as it stands now, we're both free to live according to our own beliefs and values. All is good.

... except you aren't satisfied with this. You want everyone else to live by your beliefs and values, too. For you to do this ethically, you would need to demonstrate - to the satisfaction of the people you want to impose upon - that they ought to do this.

You can start any time.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Actually, it isn't .. or should I say wasn't.
The original understanding of rape was when a woman was attacked or coerced to have sex outside of marriage.

The fact that I can say "spousal rape" and you know what I mean tells us that you know full well that rape can happen within a marriage.

I know what I wrote.

So you're comfortable with the implication that when a woman is attacked by a predator who they are married to, it isn't rape?

A marriage contract was originally a religious institution.
It provides implicit consent for sexual intercourse between man and wife.
..and not "today I won't be your wife, but tomorrow I will".

Revisionist nonsense. In the original form of religious marriage - at least in the Abrahamic traditions - the idea of the wife's consent wasn't recognized.

Religion was a transaction between the bride's father and the groom, with the woman's consent not being required.

The idea that marriage should be a partnership of equals based in love is a secular innovation.

 

[Soandso]

That's it .. just like we kill murderers, or chop off the hands of robbers.

I'm good on that. No thanks

 

[F1fan]

Not more of this nonsense again.

Don't you hate these questions that reveal a dark side to your religious beliefs? You keep coming back for more questions.

A woman does not have to stay married to a person she doesn't approve of.
Presumably, she DID approve of him when they got married and had children together.

Well being raped has a way of changing a wife's mind about the man she married.

Why not tell boys to not decieve their wives about their violent nature, and seek help before the husband ruins his marriage?

..but somehow, the relationship has broken down.

A lack of respect for one's wife will do that. Rape is a point that's it's gone too far.

I don't believe for one moment, that a woman who has lived with her husband for many years,
has suddenly decided that he is a rapist, and wants him dead. It makes little sense.

We are talking general concepts, not specific cases. You admit that it's ;egal for a husband to rape his wife. It's irrelevant who you want to blame, rape is inexcusable.

No .. he is not a rapist in reality .. he is only being CALLED a rapist, because his wife does not want to give him consent
at a particular time.

He's called a rapist in civilized nations. You think women are property and rape never happens because she has no choice. It is mistreatment, but you reject that too because a woman has no human right to body autonomy.

Most reasonable men won't force their wives to have sexual intercourse with them..

But some reasonable men will? They aren't reasonable in any way. They are criminals.

..so the woman is married to an unreasonable man.

Unreasonable man. That is where the blame lies: the man who isn't reasonable. You never suggest men get their act togsather and be decent and moral.

If she doesn't love him anymore because of it .. end of .. it is very likely that she didn't love him
BEFORE he forced her, in any case.

It should never happen. You make it sound like he's ignoring her. Rape is a crime that has a victim.

I'm fed up with this stupid game.

Imagine being married to a husband who rapes you.

A woman that no longer honours her husband should seek divorce.
The relationship has broken down.

Demanding a woman be an object for sex has no honor. And man who thinks a wife owes him sex is no man at all.

..well you tell me?
I have never met them.

I didn't ask you if you've met them, I asked you if their actions were guided by God's truth. What is your expert answer as a Muslim?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Religion was a transaction between the bride's father and the groom, with the woman's consent not being required.

That is often what happened..
..but that is not what G-d ordained .. it is what mankind did due to economic concerns and ignorance.
It still happens today .. but it is not Islamic.

 

[muhammad_isa]

You think women are property and rape never happens because she has no choice.

That is total nonsense.
What do you mean by "she has no choice"?

Islam does not teach men to mistreat their wives.
Islam does not teach that men can keep their wives against their will.

I didn't ask you if you've met them, I asked you if their actions were guided by God's truth. What is your expert answer as a Muslim?

I have already told you.
Just because somebody is called a Muslim or a Christian does not mean that they practise their faith.
It is irrelevant.

If you are asking me about my personal opinion .. not as an expert .. I will tell you that blowing up civilians,
including women and children is politically motivated, and evil, and has nothing to do with Islam.

 

[Nakosis]

My point was that marriage does not bring stability to a relationship.

Ok my experience has been different.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Don't you hate these questions that reveal a dark side to your religious beliefs? You keep coming back for more questions..

There is no dark side.
satan is the one with the dark side, but he is destined for hell.

Personally, I have no desire to join him.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

​

I'd suppose this depends on what you view as moral behavior but I thought I'd ask the question to see what people would say.

It is easy to justify one's personal morals but I'd like you to consider the world at large. Is the world becoming more moral or less moral?

And, does this have anything to do with the decline of religious belief?

Certainly it does. But so does Religionism.

 

[Audie]

So you're going for an Iranian interpretation of Islamic law, then?

That's the only Muslim-majority country I can think of that was never colonized by a Western power (though it was certainly influenced by them).

How much of Europe was / is colonized by islam?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes .. but she has to get divorced from her first one.
A man can have more than one wife at the same time.

Men and women have different physiology, obviously.
A healthy man can perform without interruption, while a woman cannot.

Um, I think it's the other way around.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Um, I think it's the other way around.

I'm not talking about a single act..
I'm talking about carrying children, 'time of the month' etc.