Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

[Polymath257]

I'm sure you don't care about the Bible or the Qur'an..
There are plenty of women who do, and they don't need your sympathy.

I would disagree. Anyone who follows them needs my sympathy and help to get out of such a system.

 

[Polymath257]

That has little to do with women disrespecting their husbands.
There are many professional couples, that both work in hospitals etc.

There is no point in a marriage where a woman disregards her husband's wishes.

What the bloody ****? Maybe there is no point for the man, but for a woman, to be listened to and respected is far better than to be told to just do what you are told.

That does not mean that husbands should be unreasonable.
A woman is entitled to complain about her husband.
..but it is generally a family matter, and not the police.

Well, it is good to know that if a woman doesn't do what her husband commands, the police won't be called. I would agree, it isn't a legal matter.

Sounds to me like a few owmen need to read Lysistrata.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I would disagree. Anyone who follows them needs my sympathy and help to get out of such a system.

Well you disagree with most Christians and Muslims .. in that the Bible and Qur'an have "got it wrong".

 

[SkepticThinker]

According to the Oxford English Dictionary the English word "misogyny" was coined in the middle of the 17th century from the Greek misos 'hatred' + gunē 'woman'. The word was rarely used until it was popularised by second-wave feminism in the 1970s.
Misogyny - Wikipedia

Well I do not hate women.
But many people here hate Islam.

Maybe try representing it better, then.

Men are in charge of women, because God hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which God hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! God is ever High, Exalted, Great.
- Qur'an 4:34 -

This isn't helping. God made men superior to women? What nonsense.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

This isn't helping. God made men superior to women? What nonsense.

I agree that it's nonsense, and I believe that it is also misogynistic and bigoted. I believe it is obvious that the God of the Bible is misogynistic and a male chauvinist who deserves to be rejected and despised. I don't consider a God who created men to be superior to women to be loving, merciful, and just.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

According to the Oxford English Dictionary the English word "misogyny" was coined in the middle of the 17th century from the Greek misos 'hatred' + gunē 'woman'. The word was rarely used until it was popularised by second-wave feminism in the 1970s.
Misogyny - Wikipedia

Well I do not hate women.
But many people here hate Islam.

Men are in charge of women, because God hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which God hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! God is ever High, Exalted, Great.
- Qur'an 4:34 -

If you don't like the word "hate", "disrespect" also fits.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If you don't like the word "hate", "disrespect" also fits.

Neither do I disrespect women.
I disrespect rudeness, and immoral behaviour.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Neither do I disrespect women.

You just posted a Quran passage advocating disrespect for women.

I disrespect rudeness, and immoral behaviour.

This thread shows that you're just fine with rudenrss and immoral behaviour.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

No I did not .. I said it is easy to be an atheist if you are rich.
It means what it says.
In poor countries, people rely a lot more on G-d.

Sounds a lot like you're saying excess religious devotion stems from a place of desperation and wouldn't exist in the same numbers if people's needs were being adequately met.

In which case it's in the rich priest's best interest to keep the people poor.

 

[muhammad_isa]

This thread shows that you're just fine with rudenrss and immoral behaviour.

No .. just different moral values.
As you know, I favour the institution of marriage, whilst others
see it as optional.
..so people try to get me angry, accusing me of rape and what have you.
G-d knows best of the truth of what you allege.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Sounds a lot like you're saying excess religious devotion stems from a place of desperation and wouldn't exist in the same numbers if people's needs were being adequately met.

Wealth is surely a difficult test.

In which case it's in the rich priest's best interest to keep the people poor.

In Islam, there is no hierarchy, as such..
The Imam leads the prayer .. he doesn't collect taxes.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No .. just different moral values.

... mixed in with rudeness.

But it's not even a question of different values, because the positions you argue don't align with the values you claim to hold.

For instance, you say you support the idea that women are equal in status to men, but then you just argued that women should be subjugated by their husbands.

There are some pretty fundamental inconsistencies in what you've said here.

As you know, I favour the institution of marriage, whilst others
see it as optional.

You favour one version of marriage - IMO a deficient one - and profane the sort of marriage I see as sacred.

..so people try to get me angry, accusing me of rape and what have you.
G-d knows best of the truth of what you allege.

Nothing in this thread has been about trying to get you angry. It's all been about just reflecting back to you what you're saying with the hope that you'll see the error of your ways and advocate for something better.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Wealth is surely a difficult test.


In Islam, there is no hierarchy, as such..
The Imam leads the prayer .. he doesn't collect taxes.

There are rich imams who have profited off the mosque just like priests. Not to mention royals and caliphates who are considered holy leaders. The current Aga khan is worth what now like 13 billion?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

No .. just different moral values.
As you know, I favour the institution of marriage, whilst others
see it as optional.
..so people try to get me angry, accusing me of rape and what have you.
G-d knows best of the truth of what you allege.

I've been married for going on 15 years this summer. My marriage thankfully doesn't involve a husband who thinks he gets to demand sex whenever he wants, nor do I get to do the same.

We work as partners of equal stature and experience, we both deal with matters of house and leadership which are based on our skills rather than what's between our legs.

Maybe that's why my marriage succeeded and yours didn't. *thumbsup.*

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Nothing in this thread has been about trying to get you angry. It's all been about just reflecting back to you what you're saying with the hope that you'll see the error of your ways and advocate for something better.

I mean at this point I don't care if he gets angry. I don't have any respect for his position and have more hope the women in his life break free of him.

Though from the sounds of it, the disrespect only fuels his persecution complex which is what many who advocate for abusive views fall into to try and save face. '*I'm* the real oppressed one here.'

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

No .. just different moral values.

What is the moral value of believing that a woman must obey and be submissive to her husband? Such a belief, in my opinion, should be rejected and shunned for the misogynistic and bigoted garbage that it is, and I'm sure others would agree. As a married woman, I've always thought that this belief of wives being subservient to their husbands was abhorrent and a remnant of the Dark Ages. In my marriage, I'm on an equal footing with my husband.

As you know, I favour the institution of marriage, whilst others
see it as optional.

Your kind of marriage is a dictatorship, in which a woman must obey her husband and be subordinate in the marriage.

..so people try to get me angry, accusing me of rape and what have you.
G-d knows best of the truth of what you allege.

Who is trying to make you angry, and who has accused you of rape and what have you?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I've been married for going on 15 years this summer. My marriage thankfully doesn't involve a husband who thinks he gets to demand sex whenever he wants, nor do I get to do the same.

We work as partners of equal stature and experience, we both deal with matters of house and leadership which are based on our skills rather than what's between our legs.

Maybe that's why my marriage succeeded and yours didn't. *thumbsup.*

Winner frubal.

I mean at this point I don't care if he gets angry. I don't have any respect for his position and have more hope the women in his life break free of him.

Though from the sounds of it, the disrespect only fuels his persecution complex which is what many who advocate for abusive views fall into to try and save face. '*I'm* the real oppressed one here.'

Another winner frubal. Well said, my friend.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I mean at this point I don't care if he gets angry. I don't have any respect for his position and have more hope the women in his life break free of him.

Though from the sounds of it, the disrespect only fuels his persecution complex which is what many who advocate for abusive views fall into to try and save face. '*I'm* the real oppressed one here.'

When it comes right down to it, I'm less interested in changing @muhammad_isa 's mind and more interested in using him as a foil or cautionary example for others reading the thread who might be tempted to adopt his position.

 

[muhammad_isa]

When it comes right down to it, I'm less interested in changing @muhammad_isa 's mind and more interested in using him as a foil or cautionary example for others reading the thread who might be tempted to adopt his position.

Keep marriage optional, yeah.
Believers can't agree with that.

We now have a society, which accepts sex outside marriage, and a marriage can
consist of 2 men or 2 women.
Nothing Holy about it any more. It's just an accessary.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Keep marriage optional, yeah.
Believers can't agree with that.

We now have a society, who accepts sex outside marriage, and a marriage can
consist of 2 men or 2 women.
Nothing Holy about it any more. It's just an accessary.

Well, I am not an atheist. I am a believer and I disagree with you about marriage. So yes, it has nothing to do with being believers.