Does the day of Christ ressurection tell us to worship on Sunday?

[duane2064]

Exo 16:29 ... let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

these verses mean:

stay in your house on the 7th, fri-eve to sat-eve, and do not cause anything to get dirty in the kitchen so that someone might have to clean it. prepare sandwiches the day before etc.

and on the first, sat-eve to sun-eve worship in public and partake of the lord's supper.



also
the entire world is supposed to count the days the same way and time that israel counts them. so when it is fri-eve in israel, it is fri-morning where i live. that means my sabbath goes from fri-morn to sat-morn.

i guess ill not get anyone to even a little bit agree with me

 

[Beta]

Exo 16:29 ... let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

these verses mean:

stay in your house on the 7th, fri-eve to sat-eve, and do not cause anything to get dirty in the kitchen so that someone might have to clean it. prepare sandwiches the day before etc.

and on the first, sat-eve to sun-eve worship in public and partake of the lord's supper.
also
the entire world is supposed to count the days the same way and time that israel counts them. so when it is fri-eve in israel, it is fri-morning where i live. that means my sabbath goes from fri-morn to sat-morn.
i guess ill not get anyone to even a little bit agree with me

It will be difficult to agree with what you says here because it's not biblical - at least some is not.
Sabbath observance has somewhat changed in the NT. Not that time has changed but observance. Jesus and his Disciples went about on the sabbath and did not carry 'sandwiches' or spare clothes. They ate what they were given or could find (like pulling a few ears of corn). Today we need not go out and gather sticks to light a fire or kill an animal for food. It is true we should prepare on friday (preparation day) for the sabbath nor do any paid work on it and spend it in assembly and fellowship with God and his people.
Also the Sabbath (friday sunset - saturday sunset) applies wherever we live and is not based on Jerusalem time. Can you imagine the confusion all over the world where people live in different time-Zones and would have the greatest difficulty figuring it out.
As to Acts 20v7 Paul was already holding an assembly (rel.meeting) on the Sabbath which would end just before sunset. Because he was visiting for a short time (ready to leave the next morning) they all had a meal together AFTER sabbath-service at beginning of first day of the week (sunday evening). The meal and discussions continued till midnight (because of his short visit) but it was in no way a Sabbath assembly but a get-together to make the most of his short stay.(please read the whole story).Had that sunday been in any way religious Paul could not have set out on a long trek across country to pick up the boat and sail. He would not have been allowed such activity on a holy day.
The Lord's Supper (or rightly called Passover) is now held once a year on the memorial of his death and consists of a small portion of Unleavened Bread and Wine not a fullblown meal which was OT observance. Didn't Paul say : 'what, have you no homes to eat in '?(instead of being gluttonous and drunken at the Passover) 1Cor.11v20-27.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Exo 16:29 ... let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

these verses mean:

stay in your house on the 7th, fri-eve to sat-eve, and do not cause anything to get dirty in the kitchen so that someone might have to clean it. prepare sandwiches the day before etc.

and on the first, sat-eve to sun-eve worship in public and partake of the lord's supper.



also
the entire world is supposed to count the days the same way and time that israel counts them. so when it is fri-eve in israel, it is fri-morning where i live. that means my sabbath goes from fri-morn to sat-morn.

i guess ill not get anyone to even a little bit agree with me

Wellll.......in the book of Genesis, it speaks on the evening and the morning being a day. We are to follow the same thing. Evening and the morning because it is what God ordained since creation.

As far as staying in your house on the sabbath, we have to look at the entire picture. In the New Testament, Christ tells us, it is good to do good on the sabbath. He went about healing the sick, and was accused of working by the Pharisees. There were slight changes in the observance of the sabbath. Because it isnt a burden, but a day of rest. Breaking of the bread means fellowship. They still went to temple on the sabbath. But Paul preached on sundays and offerings were given up in order to support the missionary work.

 

[Beta]

Very often 1Cor.16 is used to assume that sunday is the day of preaching and taking up church collections.
Please read carefully : v2, upon the first day of the week (Paul was giving this message on the sabbath at assembly) let every one of you lay by him IN STORE as God has prospered him that there be no GATHERINGS when I come. The first day of the week being sunday was a common work-day in which they were asked to store up some fruit and grain from their gardens, orchards and fields - for the starving Saints at Jerusalem so it would not have to be gathered when he came to collect it. There was a famine and draught in Jerusalem not a shortage of money but goods. And other men were to go with Paul to help transport v3,4. Would Paul need help to carry a few coins, money that was scarce among poor people who depended mostly on what their patch of land could produce ?
I could further elaborate on these scriptures to show that sunday was not the holy day people have turned it into. Nor did Paul adopt sunday-preaching except for that one occasion while they were sharing a meal and he was on a short visit Acts 20. And that was more of a social teaching and discussing than a religious assembly. Paul kept and preached on a Sabbath as was his custom Acts 13, 14, 16 and other places. :yes:

 

[duane2064]

beta:
where did jesus go out on the sabbath? show me, except as in his parable:
'if your cow is stuck in the mud are you not going to pull him out on the sabbath'
they did not have to carry sandwiches because all the houses they stayed in were sabbath keepers and prepared before. if on ocasion not, they fasted.
and how exactly do the sabbath keepers in alaska keep the sabbath. and on the international date line you can have people on either side keeping the sabbath 24 hours apart. and this dateline was not set by our Father. if our Father were to set a dateline he would set it right before israel, probably. but my strongest agrument is that he would not set a dateline at all. the entire world should go by israel time

during the Jesus 1000 years:
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

and all the people of the earth need to calculate thier departure so they make it to israel on time, israel time

this poses another but similar agrument:
this verse shows us that we were to keep the "feast of tabernacles" in the old testament and we will keep it in the 1000 year. but my guess is you say we are exempt from it now.
how convienient


A="And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, "
B="and came unto them to Troas in five days; "
C=" where we abode seven days. "

A1 A2 A3 A4 A5 A6 A7 B1 B2 B3 B4 B5 C1 C2 C3 C4 C5 C6 C7 E1 E2 E3

therefore C2 is the sabbath and also E2
therefore E3 is the first day:
"And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
"

where in there can you say that paul was holding an assembely on the 7th.?





Jer 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

12 Your mother(greece) shall be sore confounded; she that bare you(england) shall be ashamed: behold, the hindermost of the nations shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert.

23 How is the hammer of the whole earth cut asunder and broken! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations! 24
--- I have laid a snare(lying preachers) for thee, and thou art also taken, ---
O Babylon, and thou wast not aware: thou art found, and also caught, because thou hast striven against the LORD.

30 Therefore shall her young men fall in the streets, and all her men of war shall be
cut off(colapse of the dollar strands our troops overseas)
in that day, saith the LORD.

36 A sword is upon the liars ...

46 At the
noise(earthquake in the center of america, causing the great lakes to dump all over america)
of the taking of Babylon the earth is moved , and the cry is heard among the nations.

51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

11 Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the
kings of the Medes: for his
device(HAARP, russia has one too)
is against Babylon, to destroy it;
because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance of his temple.

25 Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

33 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel;
--- The daughter of Babylon ---
is like a threshingfloor, it is time to thresh her: yet a little while, and the time of her harvest shall come.

42 The sea is come up upon Babylon:
she is covered(ASTEROID probably in the beginning of 2011)
with the multitude of the waves thereof.

45 My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the LORD.

revelation says:"come out of
her(harlot - "mystery babylon" - big cities in america)
my people"

49 As Babylon hath caused the slain of
Israel(goat ram war of daniel 8 probably in 2010)
to fall, so at Babylon shall fall the slain of all the earth.

so to recap the next aprox year

first goat ram war
second earthquake in america
third asteroid

only 97 days between the second and the third

better make sure your bible has mathew 17:21
in italics or as a note DOES NOT COUNT
and better start fasting and the lords super

you got 97 days after the earthquake to 'come out of her'(big cities)

 

[Beta]

duane2064 , You seem to have misread my post friend and I am not going to reply to your understanding of every detail (which I find confusing and not really appliccable to this thread.)
YOU want to keep Israel time that's ok with me. I keep the Sabbath from sunset to sunset where I live. And contrary to your mistaken assumption I also keep the biblical Holy Days. God determined the 'sunsets' (if not datelines) and he knew they would be at different times in different places. Are we told to keep Jerusalem time or observe the day from evening to evening ? (I will look into that closer).
The Bible tells us that Jesus and his disciples went on the sabbath day through a cornfield. They must have been out and about on other sabbaths too to attend religious meetings so why are you questioning this ? If they were expectet to stay at other Sabbath-keepers houses why did they have to satisfy their hunger by eating corn ? And run the risk of being accused of sabbath-breaking ?
Certainly Jesus taught that we can do good on the sabbath so where is your problem ?

 

[duane2064]

doing good? ok, as long as the good is not for the benifit of the person doing it, ie a cow stuck in the mud. in that case i might pull out my cow, but i would do the same if it was someone else's cow. i guess im sounding like a pharasees. so actually since we are a new thing in christ, im insistant that we should not plan to break the sabbath, and if we do confess our sin. and if we keep on sinning the same sin, at some point it becomes almost the same as planing to sin. so then the confession is not real. off topic, ok, true, but did anyone notice 3 earthquakes and a volcano in 6 months. the sabbath is extremely important, we will not have another 30 years to figure it out.

 

[Beta]

doing good? ok, as long as the good is not for the benifit of the person doing it, ie a cow stuck in the mud. in that case i might pull out my cow, but i would do the same if it was someone else's cow. i guess im sounding like a pharasees. so actually since we are a new thing in christ, im insistant that we should not plan to break the sabbath, and if we do confess our sin. and if we keep on sinning the same sin, at some point it becomes almost the same as planing to sin. so then the confession is not real. off topic, ok, true, but did anyone notice 3 earthquakes and a volcano in 6 months. the sabbath is extremely important, we will not have another 30 years to figure it out.

Look friend , to a large extent I agree with you but fail to see the point you are trying to make about the cow. Doing good applies to any cow or any person. If someone is in serious trouble we should try and help, even on a sabbath.
I admit it would be difficult to help deliberate sinners who consciously reject God but by talking to them we might do some good. True Converts don't deliberately plan to sin but friend ...the flesh is weak and people give way to sin. With repentance, prayer and supplication to God we should get stronger and eventually be able to resist. It's a life-long experience, does not happen over night.
The Sabbath is important sanctified and holy time to God , and just as Jesus healed physically on that day so we should speak to the unconverted on the Sabbath . Of course not all will hear and that is their choice and free will.
We know that dreadful tribulations will come upon us in the last days but sadly human nature is stubborn to the last.:thud:

 

[duane2064]

Mar 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

he being jesus. jesus does not need to expain to anyone why he does what he does on the sabbath, yet he still restrains himself, in this case not doing any miracles that are not necessary, because of the sabbath, i have expained in great detail what i believe we should not do on the sabbath, but all i keep hearing here is
"do good on the sabbath"
ok fine what do you restain yourself from on the sabbath and be specific as to why the bible tells us.

i believe that ellen white is a prophet, but i do not follow all her teachings, only those which she says she recieved a direct message from the father. so i disagree with her yet i still say she is a prophet. meaning her interpretations of the bible are not all correct but her visions are. so we are all challenged and can be wrong even ellen white, EVEN A PROPHET can be wrong in the interpretation of the word of our father, if she did not verify with the father her interpretation.

 

[Beta]

duane2064 , I think I should clarify a point here. Though I keep the 7th day sabbath and God's Annual Holy days i am not an SDA and know practically nothing about EGW.
I do not specify that we can only do good on the sabbath - what I do stress is that we CAN do good if the occasion arises and that good works are not forbidden.
The sabbath is mainly a day of assembly and worship Lev.23v3 and we should not do on the sabbath what can be done on other days ie. paid work, shopping, sport, laundry, cleaning, decorating and such like. But there are no restrictions on visiting the sick or do a good turn for the needy if necessary. Also we can refresh our mind and spirit on short walks in natural surroundings with God's teaching in mind re his creation.
The sabbath is to be a delight in the Lord not a burden to be suffered as was in the OT.
People can keep it any way they like but this is my understanding of it.

 

[duane2064]

Isa 58:13
kjv:"If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, "
if we stop stepping on the sabbath

kjv:"from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; "
from doing what ever we want on our father's holy day

kjv:"and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; "
and instead call the sabbath a delight, our father's holy day, honourable;

kjv:"and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking words:"
and honour our father, not doing what every we want, nor doing good things for our own benefit, nor talking to lift ones self up.

so:
"call the sabbath a delight" this is in the old testament


Luk 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?

jesus said unto them, i will ask you one thing; is it lawful on the sabbath to destroy life? is it lawful to do evil by not saving life.
"to do good" is not the premise
the premise is to "save life"
and of course saving life is good
and of course killing life by ommision of action is evil

Mat 24:20 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: "
i should rather say it is better to stay in our houses, unless we can meet other christians by walking short distances, then its ok. if you need to carry anything on your trip other than your bible with you then it is too far. ie: a car

 

[S-word]

I believe that we can get hung up on legalism when it seems to me that God's point was that we rest one day in seven.

You are correct Kathryn, but the truth remains that Saturday is the true Sabbath, as it is the seventh day of the week, according to the holy scriptures. But as the reality of the sabbath has been revealed, that actual day on which you gather with the friends in your community to contemplate the wonders of God and his salvation, depends on the day that is best suited for your community. As Paul says in Colossians 2: 16; "So let no one make rules about what you eat or drink or about holy days or the New Moon Festival or the Sabbath. All such things are only a shadow of things in the future; the reality is Christ.

As long as we accept that the seventh day is the day of the lord, of which the reality is soon to begin, the seventh period of one thousand years from the first day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that first day at the age of 930.

From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; "And he lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day according to the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: 'On the day that ye eat thereof ye shall die.' For this reason he did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it." Most scholars generally agree the book of Jubilees was written in Hebrew somewhere between 135-105 B.C,.

The future reality of the Sabbath that Paul was referring to, was the seventh period of one thousand years which is "The Day of the Lord" wherein all those who are chosen will take the thrones that have been prepared for them, through whom Christ will rule the world with justice for the Sabbath of one thousand years. We are now at the close of the sixth day from the day in which Adam died at the age of 930.

 

[sojourner]

If the argument is that we need to "keep God's Law," then surely all humanity is doomed, since one of God's first commandments, according to the Bible, is that we not "eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil." Yet we, as a race, do that very thing constantly. It seems to me that if we were not eating of the fruit of that tree, we would be unaware of whether Sunday was the "right" day to worship -- nor would we care.

Fact is, Beta's argument only stands if the Bible can be proven to have dropped out of the sky in God's own penmanship, which it obviously can not. the Bible is the human record of our perception of God. And that has value, in and of itself (although not the value Beta ascribes to it).

 

[Beta]

If the argument is that we need to "keep God's Law," then surely all humanity is doomed, since one of God's first commandments, according to the Bible, is that we not "eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil." Yet we, as a race, do that very thing constantly. It seems to me that if we were not eating of the fruit of that tree, we would be unaware of whether Sunday was the "right" day to worship -- nor would we care.

Fact is, Beta's argument only stands if the Bible can be proven to have dropped out of the sky in God's own penmanship, which it obviously can not. the Bible is the human record of our perception of God. And that has value, in and of itself (although not the value Beta ascribes to it).

Seems we each put a different value on the Word of God - indeed a different value on God Himself :yes:

 

[sojourner]

Seems we each put a different value on the Word of God - indeed a different value on God Himself :yes:

I'm not guilty of Bibliolatry, that's for sure. The book is not God.

 

[Beta]

I'm not guilty of Bibliolatry, that's for sure. The book is not God.

For the present you are still entitled to your own opinion friend

 

[sojourner]

For the present you are still entitled to your own opinion friend

Great! Thank you! I intend to make full use of that freedom.

 

[AaronG]

Where did Sunday come in as a day of worship...

It has to do with the resurrection of Jesus which inaugurated a "new creation" and a "greater redemption."

 

[AaronG]

Saturday is the true Sabbath, as it is the seventh day of the week, according to the holy scriptures.

The true Sabbath is Jesus just as He is the true meaning of the Temple and the rest of Israel's Old Covenant worship. Sabbath has to do with the Christian's resting in Christ's finished work alone.

 

[Beta]

The true Sabbath is Jesus just as He is the true meaning of the Temple and the rest of Israel's Old Covenant worship. Sabbath has to do with the Christian's resting in Christ's finished work alone.

If Jesus is the true Sabbath then there is no argument with the 7th day Sabbath which HE observed and man is admonished to REMEMBER and keep HOLY. :yes:
What is the problem with traditional christians ?