ESP, psychic and supernatural phenomenon... yes or no?

[outhouse]

2. We have a very good understanding of the effects of gravity even if we don't fully grasp the cause of it.

like dowsing

You cannot seriously hope to compare a well researched area of physics that is backed by mountains of evidence with the unfounded anecdotally based notions about dowsing.

No i agree.

im just shining a light on things that are not testable and not debated.

we do know more about gravity then dowsning, no doubt.


My point is we dont have dowsing solved, and we know dowsing works.

 

[outhouse]

However, if you accept this to be true, then don't you have to accept that psychics work as well?

nope

im not sure it is supernatural, possibly something like homing pigeons.

I dont have answers other then it works and I have felt a power that did not come from me.




One of the weirdest things I did with this that put the hair on my arms standing straight up and down was the fiorst day I was trained. The guy said take one stick and ask it which way north is, I did and the stick swung around and my hair stood straight up lol

only other time it was freaky was when I played with the gold chain and crystal and could see it repelling against a 7pnw nugget

 

[jarofthoughts]

like dowsing

Not like dowsing at all...

No i agree.

im just shining a light on things that are not testable and not debated.

Wait, are you saying that the cause of gravity isn't testable?
Because the guys working at the LHC might disagree with you...

we do know more about gravity then dowsning, no doubt.

My point is we dont have dowsing solved, and we know dowsing works.

Erm... No, we don't know that dowsing works.

 

[outhouse]

Erm... No, we don't know that dowsing works.

you dont

I do.

10 years its the driller that test every witch on every well

 

[outhouse]

Wait, are you saying that the cause of gravity isn't testable?
Because the guys working at the LHC might disagree with you...

some parts are testable

its still a phenomenon though

 

[jarofthoughts]

you dont

I do.

10 years its the driller that test every witch on every well

Again, anecdotes aren't evidence, and has been pointed out by others in this tread, there are more probable explanations that don't involve woo and some sticks.

 

[outhouse]

Again, anecdotes aren't evidence, and has been pointed out by others in this tread, there are more probable explanations that don't involve woo and some sticks.

but the skeptics do not have this nailed down and explained with any certainty at all.


ideomotor is one possibly explanation that i dont even discount comepletely but that is still only a guess.


I only claim it works from using it and seeing resluts. I also only delt with those good enough to have a track record.

 

[jarofthoughts]

but the skeptics do not have this nailed down and explained with any certainty at all.

Well, the burden of proof is not on them, now is it? :sarcastic
All they have to do is point to the stunning lack of evidence and that's it.
Case closed, at least until someone can dig up some of that glorious 'E'.
And when choosing between possible explanations, don't you think that it is better to go with the one that does not propose any new unknown force or ability unknown to anyone anywhere?

ideomotor is one possibly explanation that i dont even discount comepletely but that is still only a guess.

Doesn't matter.
We know that there is such a thing as the ideomotor effect, and we know that it could do the things described happening to the sticks by dowsers and voila, you have a better explanation already.
Why?
Occam's Razor.

I only claim it works from using it and seeing resluts. I also only delt with those good enough to have a track record.

And yet, these people perform no better than chance in trials.
Now why is that you think?
And why haven't any of these people picked James Randi clean?

 

[Gaura Priya]

So are you arguing in this thread that psychic and supernatural phenomenon are not possible, or that they may be possible but are not true spiritual qualities?

Pretty much. Thus, if they occur, they are just natural occurrences in the natural world, and perhaps another capability of some or all human beings, but not necessarily a sign of the divine.

 

[espo35]

yes, occult powers and superhuman acts are real in some cases. The bible shows the source of these to be wicked spirit creatures who rebelled against god. For example, the account at acts 16:16-18 relate that a servant girl had the power to predict the future. The source of that power was "a spirit, a demon of divination."
rather than have dealings with the occult, the apostle paul ordered this wicked spirit to leave the girl. Since practicing the occult can bring a person under the control of wicked spirits, it is very dangerous and should be shunned. (acts 19:11-20)

+1....

 

[fallingblood]

but the skeptics do not have this nailed down and explained with any certainty at all.


ideomotor is one possibly explanation that i dont even discount comepletely but that is still only a guess.


I only claim it works from using it and seeing resluts. I also only delt with those good enough to have a track record.

Actually skeptics have. I've explained it. And it has been explained for hundreds of years. You just have faith that it works and thus your faith dictates your belief here.

 

[fallingblood]

Yes, occult powers and superhuman acts are real in some cases. The Bible shows the source of these to be wicked spirit creatures who rebelled against God. For example, the account at Acts 16:16-18 relate that a servant girl had the power to predict the future. The source of that power was "a spirit, a demon of divination."
Rather than have dealings with the occult, the apostle Paul ordered this wicked spirit to leave the girl. Since practicing the occult can bring a person under the control of wicked spirits, it is very dangerous and should be shunned. (Acts 19:11-20)

Except various Biblical heros were said to have similar powers. So it is also, if we believe the Bible, a product of God.

 

[cablescavenger]

I am not sure how this relates to the discussion, but I would label myself as possibly an amateur scholar. My field of study is religious studies and classics, with a focus on the New Testament and Historical Jesus scholarship.

In regards to magic, and supernatural phenomenon, I would say that I am a scholar. My studies have been quite thorough in those regards.

I asked because you said James Randl was not a scholar, and had no business talking religion, which made me think perhaps you were, and that you only dealt with scholars on certain matters. I wondered which field you studied in, and how narrow that field might be, because religion is a pretty bid field of study.

 

[PolyHedral]

I asked because you said James Randl was not a scholar, and had no business talking religion...

He is a magician and scientist. He has great business talking about reality; your fault if you cross paths with him.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

A high school drop out with no degree in any of the sciences is a scientist? Ok if you say so.

 

[cablescavenger]

He is a magician and scientist. He has great business talking about reality; your fault if you cross paths with him.

I am not sure what you mean by "He has great business talking about reality", it seems like an incomplete sentence to me.

Anyway, I have not crossed anything with him, but thanks for the advice. I am not a religious scholar, I am anti-theist.

 

[outhouse]

Actually skeptics have. I've explained it. And it has been explained for hundreds of years. You just have faith that it works and thus your faith dictates your belief here.

I believe you have faith in that.

I dont.


If the myth was busted people would not still be producing positive enough results to be employed in major corporations and law enforcement.


If it was busted it would be common kowledge, its not.

 

[PolyHedral]

A high school drop out with no degree in any of the sciences is a scientist? Ok if you say so.

He's betting $1m on being right. Since nobody's claimed it so far, I think he knows what he's talking about.

 

[cablescavenger]

He's betting $1m on being right. Since nobody's claimed it so far, I think he knows what he's talking about.

I think you may have confused me. I was talking about fallingblood. Are you talking about James Randl, or fallingblood, when you say your fault if you cross him?

 

[PolyHedral]

I think you may have confused me. I was talking about fallingblood. Are you talking about James Randl, or fallingblood, when you say your fault if you cross him?

Randi.