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eternal universe?

Native

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
gnostic said:
Do you think or believe the universe is eternal or not?

Do you think the initial expansion (big bang) is the beginning of the universe? Or do you think the universe predate this point Iin time?

Which or what physical cosmological model do you accept if it is not the big bang model?

Please explain your position...
Click to expand...

I think the questions of the creation of the Universe depends on our religious and scientific beliefs.

The biblical "in the beginning" is generally understood as the creation of the entire Universe, but IMO this telling is only describing the creation of our Milky Way and everything in it and not the entire Universe. This can be extracted amongst other religious tellings, from the Egyptian story of creation, the Ogdoad where the god Ra is the first entity of light, and also extracted from the goddess Hathor, who is closely connected to both the Milky Way and Ra.

That is: The Ogdoad states the basic elements and their formative qualities to be eternal and the actual description of creation deals with our Milky Way and not the entire Universe. (But I´m sure our ancestors knew of "other Universes" in the sense that there is many galaxies besides ours).

Regarding the question of "Big Bang", this isn´t relevant in the Egyptian Ogdoad because all elements are eternal, though eternally changing in the entire Universe. The Big Bang theory is really contradicted by the findings of "The Great Attractor", a center around which the observable part of the Universe seemingly is orbiting. If this is correct. a general expansion as scientifically thought in the Universe, cannot be right.

If I should chose between the mythical and scientifical version of the creation, I certainly goes for the mythical explanation because it is a cyclical and eternal explanation which excludes all kinds of unnatural explanations. Having said this, I take "gods and goddesses of creation" as nonpersonal "powers, objects and qualities of creation" and I´m having no troubles in comparing ancient myths of creation to modern astronomical and cosmological observations.

A comparison that certainly for my part comes out as a huge advantage for the mythical explanation of the creation. Visit my personal Mytho-Cosmological website for more explanations and illustrations - http://www.native-science.net

Regards
Ivar Nielsen
Natural Philosopher
 
allfoak

allfoak

Alchemist
beenherebeforeagain

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
allfoak said:
Our body and brain are also holograms.

Holograms are images, so there must be a source of course.
I choose to call the source God.
That would make the universe, our body and our brain an holographic image of God.

Crazy stuff.

Read David Bohm's and Karl Pribrum's material.

There is a video here:
http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...ctions-of-allfoak.170295/page-10#post-4590691
Click to expand...
Thanks! I was just afraid that you were arguing that the universe is a hologram without a cause...Personally, I like the hologram idea, but I'm not sure that it is true. Thanks for the link!
 
Jiddanand

Jiddanand

Active Member
I personally think that the creator is under capture and control of some sort of thing that uses the power of creating for personal use.
 
buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
allfoak said:
Our body and brain are also holograms.

Holograms are images, so there must be a source of course.
I choose to call the source God.
That would make the universe, our body and our brain an holographic image of God.
Click to expand...
I agree that we, and the universe, are holographic.

However, to believe in a source necessarily implies belief that the source is subject to time.
 
allfoak

allfoak

Alchemist
buddhist said:
I agree that we, and the universe, are holographic.

However, to believe in a source necessarily implies belief that the source is subject to time.
Click to expand...

All things exist in the mind of God.
The Ancient of Days is not subject to time.
 
allfoak

allfoak

Alchemist
buddhist said:
Then wouldn't you agree that the "source" is identical to the "creation"?
Click to expand...

Not identical in the same way we would normally think of as identical.
We are an holographic image of source.
These images; the universe, us and whatever or whoever else there may be, are all in the mind of source.

Following the Principle of Correspondence, we are justified in considering that THE ALL creates the Universe MENTALLY, in a manner akin to the process whereby Man creates Mental Images. And, here is where the report of Reason tallies precisely with the report of the Illumined, as shown by their teachings and writings. Such are the teachings of the Wise Men. Such was the Teaching of Hermes.

THE ALL can create in no other way except mentally, without either using material (and there is none to use), or else reproducing itself (which is also impossible). There is no escape from this conclusion of the Reason, which, as we have said, agrees with the highest teachings of the Illumined. Just as you, student, may create a Universe of your own in your mentality, so does THE ALL create Universes in its own Mentality. But your Universe is the mental creation of a Finite Mind, whereas that of THE ALL is the creation of an Infinite. The two are similar in kind, but infinitely different in degree. We shall examine more closely into the process of creation and manifestation as we proceed. But this is the point to fix in your minds at this stage: THE UNIVERSE, AND ALL IT CONTAINS, IS A MENTAL CREATION OF THE ALL. Verily indeed, ALL IS MIND!

"THE ALL creates in its Infinite Mind countless Universes,
which exist for aeons of Time--and yet, to THE ALL, the
creation, development, decline and death of a million Universes
is as the time of the twinkling of an eye."--The Kybalion.

"The Infinite Mind of THE ALL is the womb of Universes."--The
Kybalion.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/kyb/kyb07.htm
Click to expand...
 
buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
allfoak said:
Not identical in the same way we would normally think of as identical.
We are an holographic image of source.
These images; the universe, us and whatever or whoever else there may be, are all in the mind of source.
Click to expand...
I agree, in a sense I follow Hermetic Alchemy as well.

I wouldn't use the word "source", however - "source" implies "outcome", and both words imply time, therefore "source" is subject to time.
 
allfoak

allfoak

Alchemist
buddhist said:
I agree, in a sense I follow Hermetic Alchemy as well.

I wouldn't use the word "source", however - "source" implies "outcome", and both words imply time, therefore "source" is subject to time.
Click to expand...

I would agree.
Ancient of Days works for me.

I try not to argue those things while trying to explain something else.
I use the terms people understand.
It limits me in the amount of information i can convey in a post but i work with it.
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
RedDragon94 said:
If both the creator and the creation are eternal then what you're basically telling me is that the creator and the creation are one. How does he create something that already exists? The stars cannot be created because they already were, just like the deity.
Click to expand...
Lo....vibrations are ubiquitous in the cosmos.....creation and destruction of forms are always happening...but the vibrations (spirit) are forever...

 
RedDragon94

RedDragon94

Love everyone, meditate often
ben d said:
Lo....vibrations are ubiquitous in the cosmos.....creation and destruction of forms are always happening...but the vibrations (spirit) are forever...

Click to expand...
If a star can die then that means at some point it was born. There are life stages to everything. I don't see how vibrations are spirits. Is music a spiritual or natural phenomena? You can sense vibrations most of the time, therefore they're a natural phenomena.
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
RedDragon94 said:
If a star can die then that means at some point it was born. There are life stages to everything. I don't see how vibrations are spirits. Is music a spiritual or natural phenomena? You can sense vibrations most of the time, therefore they're a natural phenomena.
Click to expand...
Of course vibrations are a natural phenomena...they are omnipresent through out all space. When stars 'die', the matter and energy is dispersed, but does not disappear...and soon the cosmic vibration reorganize the dust and energy and we witness the birth of new stars. This process is eternal...
 
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