Everyone, whether they choose to admit it or not is religious.

[waitasec]

It was just a random example.

Your statement that my concept of religion is so wrong on so many levels has no power or credibility behind it. They are just empty words until you can show something to back it up.

ah, he did with a logical argument...
you

an atheist often brushes their teeth because it is frowned upon in society to have dirty teeth and bad breath.
Do atheists have social customs?
Do atheists have any kind of normal protocol?

me myself

No. "atheist" don´t. Civilized people do.

If you are a poor atheist or a dirty atheist maybe not, the same for a pooor or dirty theist or w/e

 

[Matthew78]

In the fact that religion is a system of beliefs that one uses to guide one's life, every decision a person makes whether good or bad is based on religion.

according to www.Merriam-webster.com
Religion: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices


Oh okay, noting the word religious in the definition of religion is defining the word with the word. It is as you say circular reasoning to do so

according to dictionary.com the word religious means
"of, pertaining to, or concerned with religion: a religious holiday."
pretty much something or someone that has something to do with religion

okay, what is religion? Religion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

a system of beliefs

What is ardor? ardor means loyalty
What is faith? firm belief in something for which there is no proof
What is an opinion? belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge
What is a thought? something (as an opinion or belief) in the mind <he spoke his thoughts freely>
Religion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Wow, so long as someone has an opinion on something they are religious.

Yaddoe,

Suppose that just for the sake of argument, I agree with you that everyone is religious. I am wondering where you are going with this? Maybe I'm wrong to suspect this but I almost get the impression that you would like to prove that everyone is religious to some extent so that people will cut you some slack as far having faith in your beliefs, because, well, they have faith, too. I'm getting the impression that all people have faith in something, whether there is a physical world independent of their consciousness, that life isn't one big dream, or something along those lines. That way, people have no right to ask you for evidence for your beliefs since you can rightfully ask them to provide evidence for their beliefs. If they can't, then that lets you off the hook as far as the burden of proof goes.

If I'm wrong, please let me know and tell me what you're getting at with this.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Yaddoe,

Suppose that just for the sake of argument, I agree with you that everyone is religious. I am wondering where you are going with this? Maybe I'm wrong to suspect this but I almost get the impression that you would like to prove that everyone is religious to some extent so that people will cut you some slack as far having faith in your beliefs, because, well, they have faith, too. I'm getting the impression that all people have faith in something, whether there is a physical world independent of their consciousness, that life isn't one big dream, or something along those lines. That way, people have no right to ask you for evidence for your beliefs since you can rightfully ask them to provide evidence for their beliefs. If they can't, then that lets you off the hook as far as the burden of proof goes.

If I'm wrong, please let me know and tell me what you're getting at with this.

That is all really interesting, and not a bit of it ever passed my mind as I posted this thread. I honestly just posted it because I brought it up somewhere, thought it was a good point and thought "Hey, why not make a thread on it." It is a good thought that a lot of people will argue with.

 

[Me Myself]

Well aparently we are as "religious" as "agnostic"

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

ah, he did with a logical argument...
you

me myself

My argument in that instance was that even atheists have rituals.
He didn't prove anything.

 

[otokage007]

Even if I have some beliefs, I don't use them to guide my life. Therefore, I'm not religious in any sense.

 

[sojourner]

I'm just stating it how it is. The truth hurts sometimes.
Whenever someone says anything, they risk someone else taking it as an insult.
That is just the risk you take when you open your mouth to say something.

But you're applying a double-standard to the term "religious." If "religious" means "any strongly-held position," then that's what it means, and it loses its poignancy as a term used to describe someone who believes in Deity. However, if it means "a belief in Deity" then your assertion is false.

You can't use both definitions to "trap" our atheistic and agnostic friends into not really being what they are. Not only is it fallacious, it's patently unChristian to do that!

 

[sojourner]

you are right, we can't say religious in the definition of religion because it is circular reasoning.
All the same, everyone is religious.

But not in the sense that they believe in Deity.

 

[sojourner]

Methinks Someone here likes to argue just to hear his head rattle...

 

[Otherright]

I don't have beliefs I have thoughts.

Well, you have beliefs, they just may not be religious. No one is immune to belief.

 

[waitasec]

My argument in that instance was that even atheists have rituals.
He didn't prove anything.

yes he did he proved
rituals are not religious

 

[Meow Mix]

I think you missed it when I said this on the previous page
"Oh okay, noting the word religious in the definition of religion is defining the word with the word. It is as you say circular reasoning to do so

according to dictionary.com the word religious means
"of, pertaining to, or concerned with religion: a religious holiday."
pretty much something or someone that has something to do with religion

okay, what is religion? Religion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

a system of beliefs

What is ardor? ardor means loyalty
What is faith? firm belief in something for which there is no proof
What is an opinion? belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge
What is a thought? something (as an opinion or belief) in the mind <he spoke his thoughts freely>
Religion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Wow, so long as someone has an opinion on something they are religious."

No, you're incorrect. The key word there was faith -- where faith, as you note, in this context means to believe something without proof (which means, in this context, epistemic justification).

Thus to correctly interpret what Mirriam-Webster is saying would go something like this:

Religiosity is to hold beliefs without epistemic justification.

Some people don't hold beliefs without epistemic justification, and therefore aren't religious.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

it was just a part of one of the definitions of religion

 

[Meow Mix]

it was just a part of one of the definitions of religion

A meaningless "definition." Some people are religious, others are not. If a word applies to everyone then it doesn't really describe them. The word "religious" is helpful to distinguish those who believe in things without epistemic justification as opposed to those who don't engage in such superstition.

 

[Me Myself]

No, you're incorrect. The key word there was faith -- where faith, as you note, in this context means to believe something without proof (which means, in this context, epistemic justification).

Thus to correctly interpret what Mirriam-Webster is saying would go something like this:

Religiosity is to hold beliefs without epistemic justification.

Some people don't hold beliefs without epistemic justification, and therefore aren't religious.

That would technically mean buddhism isn´t a religion. (though buddha hiimself said a thousand times that he was talking about a method, not a religion)

 

[waitasec]

That would technically mean buddhism isn´t a religion. (though buddha hiimself said a thousand times that he was talking about a method, not a religion)

i think the term religion involves too much of a commitment to a particular doctrine, which seems to be written in stone and doesn't leave any room for improvement...
a method approach would be more like an amendment to the constitution

 

[Meow Mix]

That would technically mean buddhism isn´t a religion. (though buddha hiimself said a thousand times that he was talking about a method, not a religion)

From what little I know about Buddhism, it does make ontological claims that aren't epistemically justified; thus qualifying as religious in nature.

Buddhism does blur the line between a life philosophy and a religion more so than some religions, but most incarnations of Buddhism that I've seen still incorporate ontologies which aren't epistemically supported. I could be wrong about some specific forms of Buddhism, though.

 

[Me Myself]

From what little I know about Buddhism, it does make ontological claims that aren't epistemically justified; thus qualifying as religious in nature.

Buddhism does blur the line between a life philosophy and a religion more so than some religions, but most incarnations of Buddhism that I've seen still incorporate ontologies which aren't epistemically supported. I could be wrong about some specific forms of Buddhism, though.

It does, but it also specifcally tell you not to beleive anything about itself unless you have analized it, proved it in to your life, and judged it adecuate and helpfull to you.

In other words, if you beleive in everything buddha said blindly, you are a terrible buddhist

 

[Meow Mix]

It does, but it also specifcally tell you not to beleive anything about itself unless you have analized it, proved it in to your life, and judged it adecuate and helpfull to you.

In other words, if you beleive in everything buddha said blindly, you are a terrible buddhist

I once heard an interesting analogy that Buddhism is a canoe to cross a river, and once you get to the other side you no longer need the canoe.

It sounds neat, but I disagree that it's epistemically viable: it's an improper epistemic order with which to come to knowledge.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

It is implied that you are attempting to insult non-religious people by calling them religious. If you yourself are religious, then isn't it rather sad that you find your own position insulting?

I don't know how many times I've been accused by the religious of 'having faith.'

Sure, my beliefs are based on faith... but so are yours!

Apparently, 'faith' is roundly recognized as a dirty word, even by some of the faithful.