Response: I've answered this before in post 1696.
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EVOLUTION, what a lie.
- Thread starter Gharib
- Start date
Response: I've answered this before in post 1696.
CarlinKnew
Well-Known Member
How does turning on your electrical equipment prove that atoms exist? How do you know it's not just Allah's magic making it turn on?
Response: Not of my knowledge, they don't exists.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
So it's quite possible to conclude that something exists, without you actually see it, if there is enough evidence, is that right?
btw, how does your electrical equipment verify the existence of atoms?
[/QUOTE] That's not what we're looking for. At this point, you're denying that new species come into existence at all. If you see a bug that previously did not exist, it would prove that new species come into existence, which you are denying. Clearly, you are too chicken to actually look, because then you would see something that if you accept, condemns you to Hell. Safer to stay home than take a chance on accepting reality.
btw, how about Nome, Alaska, does that exist?
Response: Showing me a species and saying it evolved is not proof that it evolved. It would actually have to evolve in front of my eyes. That would be proof.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
No new species ever come into existence, and species do go extinct. So what we observe is that the number of species is gradually getting smaller and smaller, right?
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Of course, that would completely violate ToE, but then, you read and understood my explanation, so you know that, right? So the only thing that would prove ToE to you is evidence that would completely disprove it?
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
So even if you saw a new species that never existed before with your own eyes, you would still not accept that new species came into existence?
[QUOTE Jose Fly]Ah, so you came here not because you were asked a question, but because you saw people claiming to have "proof" of the evolution of new species. So your initial statement wasn't true, was it?(End quote)
Response: Your original question was not as to why I came here but why I was asking for proof. So my statement was true.
(Quote JoseFly)
And in the rational world, multiple published papers in peer-reviewed scientific journals are "proof" enough of something (using "proof" in its colloquial sense). At the very least, they constitute very strong evidence that something is indeed so. But I think we all realize by now that you don't live in this world and firmly believe that saying "they're lying" without reading the papers, talking to the scientists, or taking the time to see their work yourself is a valid rebuttal.(End Quote)
Response: What you fail to realize is the hypocrisy in your argument because multiple published papers in peer-reviewed scientific journals is the same evidence for islam and yet you reject it.
(Quote JoseFly)
How do you know it doesn't exist if you refuse to look?(End quote)
Response: Through logic and common sense. The same reason why if people said that they saw big foot and Tupac and Elvis and they all lived in the north pole, you wouldn't go there to see them to prove them wrong.
Response: Your original question was not as to why I came here but why I was asking for proof. So my statement was true.
(Quote JoseFly)
And in the rational world, multiple published papers in peer-reviewed scientific journals are "proof" enough of something (using "proof" in its colloquial sense). At the very least, they constitute very strong evidence that something is indeed so. But I think we all realize by now that you don't live in this world and firmly believe that saying "they're lying" without reading the papers, talking to the scientists, or taking the time to see their work yourself is a valid rebuttal.(End Quote)
Response: What you fail to realize is the hypocrisy in your argument because multiple published papers in peer-reviewed scientific journals is the same evidence for islam and yet you reject it.
(Quote JoseFly)
How do you know it doesn't exist if you refuse to look?(End quote)
Response: Through logic and common sense. The same reason why if people said that they saw big foot and Tupac and Elvis and they all lived in the north pole, you wouldn't go there to see them to prove them wrong.
Response: Because Allah doesn't act in that way.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Just wanted to point out that for Fatihah, the London underground mosquito has the same degree of credibility as Big Foot. Has anyone collected any Big Foot specimens, Fatihah?
Basically, Fatihah and his ilk deny that science is a source of knowledge--until they need it, say, to share their views on the internet.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Apparently you think that's just how He acts. He creates tons of evidence that new species evolve, but you deny it, heretic.
[QUOTE Autodidact]So it's quite possible to conclude that something exists, without you actually see it, if there is enough evidence, is that right?(End Quote)
Response: That's correct. But not all things. And ToE is one of them.
(Quote Autodidact)
btw, how does your electrical equipment verify the existence of atoms?(End Quote)
Response: The fact that it turns on and off.
(/QUOTE Autodidact) That's not what we're looking for. At this point, you're denying that new species come into existence at all. If you see a bug that previously did not exist, it would prove that new species come into existence, which you are denying. Clearly, you are too chicken to actually look, because then you would see something that if you accept, condemns you to Hell. Safer to stay home than take a chance on accepting reality.(End quote)
Response: What is clear is your denial of the fact that your belief in ToE is simply because a some scientists said it was true. You have no proof that it's true...Wait...I just realized something...
Throughout this conversation you've consistantly said that science is not about proof!! (Post 1248 of page 124) So from your own mouth....ToE is not true! There's no need to even go any further. And before you go on your rant of saying that it's not about proof, but evidence, in if the evidence is to confirm something is the truth...It's called proof. That's what the word "proof" means. And you have consistantly said ToE and science itself is not about proof. So your own words show that ToE is not thr truth. So there's no need to go on.
Response: That's correct. But not all things. And ToE is one of them.
(Quote Autodidact)
btw, how does your electrical equipment verify the existence of atoms?(End Quote)
Response: The fact that it turns on and off.
(/QUOTE Autodidact) That's not what we're looking for. At this point, you're denying that new species come into existence at all. If you see a bug that previously did not exist, it would prove that new species come into existence, which you are denying. Clearly, you are too chicken to actually look, because then you would see something that if you accept, condemns you to Hell. Safer to stay home than take a chance on accepting reality.(End quote)
Response: What is clear is your denial of the fact that your belief in ToE is simply because a some scientists said it was true. You have no proof that it's true...Wait...I just realized something...
Throughout this conversation you've consistantly said that science is not about proof!! (Post 1248 of page 124) So from your own mouth....ToE is not true! There's no need to even go any further. And before you go on your rant of saying that it's not about proof, but evidence, in if the evidence is to confirm something is the truth...It's called proof. That's what the word "proof" means. And you have consistantly said ToE and science itself is not about proof. So your own words show that ToE is not thr truth. So there's no need to go on.
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JMorris
Democratic Socialist
wrong. Allah created computers at the dawn of time, otherwise they wouldnt exist. duh!:sarcastic
Once again, proof and truth are not the same thing. You can have truth without absolute proof. haha that rhymed.
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
So Fatihah, from what I can tell, you came here because you saw a thread on evolution where people were claiming that new species had been observed to evolve. You jumped in and demanded "proof" that it had occurred, with the belief that:
1) Multiple, independent scientific articles published in the peer-reviewed journals aren't "proof" because the scientists who wrote them are liars, even though you have never read the papers, met the scientists, or reviewed their work;
2) My personal account of the evolution of a new species isn't "proof" because I am a liar, even though you've never met me, don't know me, and didn't ask me any questions about the details;
3) You will not take the time to go see any of the new species yourself, let alone do the work necessary to study the data behind their evolution because your "common sense" tells you it can't happen.
So basically Fatihah, there is no possible way to "prove" to you that new species have evolved, is there? The only thing you will accept is to witness it with your own eyes, but if you won't look, you can't see it with your own eyes, can you?
That's not very rational, is it? That's not very open-minded or objective, is it? The question is, why would you act in such an irrational manner? Well, I think it's fairly obvious what's going on here. Your position can be boiled down to something very basic, and it's something I pointed out a long time ago in this very thread. Your position is simply...
"New species can't evolve because the Quran says Allah creates new species. Therefore, the evolution of new species contradicts the Quran, and since nothing can contradict the revealed word of Allah, the evolution of new species is a lie."
That's pretty much it, isn't it? We could add, "Therefore, it is impossible for there to be any evidence of the evolution of new species" and "Therefore, anyone who says they saw new species evolve is a liar", but that's kind of ancillary to the main point.
So it's rather pointless to go round and round arguing about data, published papers, and such, isn't it? The whole issue is that evolution contradicts how you read the Quran, right?
If that's so, then you've wasted a lot of your time and the time of a lot of other people arguing about side issues that are completely irrelevant to your position.
1) Multiple, independent scientific articles published in the peer-reviewed journals aren't "proof" because the scientists who wrote them are liars, even though you have never read the papers, met the scientists, or reviewed their work;
2) My personal account of the evolution of a new species isn't "proof" because I am a liar, even though you've never met me, don't know me, and didn't ask me any questions about the details;
3) You will not take the time to go see any of the new species yourself, let alone do the work necessary to study the data behind their evolution because your "common sense" tells you it can't happen.
So basically Fatihah, there is no possible way to "prove" to you that new species have evolved, is there? The only thing you will accept is to witness it with your own eyes, but if you won't look, you can't see it with your own eyes, can you?
That's not very rational, is it? That's not very open-minded or objective, is it? The question is, why would you act in such an irrational manner? Well, I think it's fairly obvious what's going on here. Your position can be boiled down to something very basic, and it's something I pointed out a long time ago in this very thread. Your position is simply...
"New species can't evolve because the Quran says Allah creates new species. Therefore, the evolution of new species contradicts the Quran, and since nothing can contradict the revealed word of Allah, the evolution of new species is a lie."
That's pretty much it, isn't it? We could add, "Therefore, it is impossible for there to be any evidence of the evolution of new species" and "Therefore, anyone who says they saw new species evolve is a liar", but that's kind of ancillary to the main point.
So it's rather pointless to go round and round arguing about data, published papers, and such, isn't it? The whole issue is that evolution contradicts how you read the Quran, right?
If that's so, then you've wasted a lot of your time and the time of a lot of other people arguing about side issues that are completely irrelevant to your position.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Why the special status for ToE?
You rely on evidence for other things, but for ToE you require proof, and that yourself actually observe it happening. Why?
How does that prove the existence of atoms? You're not believing those big liar-head scientists are you? Didn't you know that they lie?
No, that has nothing to do with why I accept ToE. I accept because of the overwhelming evidence that supports it, including the new species that come into existence regularly--the ones you're too chicken to look at.
You're right! Science is impossible! it doesn't work! Better turn off your computer right now! All of science is just one big fat lie!!! There are no atoms, no gravity, and also, the world is flat. Because you can't prove that it's round, can you?
Ghostaka
Active Member
Same thing can be said for you trying to disprove Allah exist or the Qur'an is fabricated.
After all, didn't Islam/Christianity/Judaism come before ToE?
Peace be upon you.