Far Right - German Election

[Estro Felino]

I'll just take the word of German members over yours. They've been shown to be more credible.
And please. Watching YouTube videos isn't the only way to learn. A German lady explain lots of things to me, including their healthcarw and how they handle hospitals and the ER. And I promise you she did not vote Far Right. She's actually hypersensitive to those things and frightened of them (she's also older).

Indeed.
The Germans need to take care of their public services instead of wasting money on stupid wars organized by an elitist gang of warmongers who live overseas.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Germans need to take care of their public services instead of wasting money on stupid wars organized by an elitist gang of warmongers who live overseas.

See? Why should I believe one singly word you say about Germany, or accept your sources as valid, when it's well established you don't get America right? America is not inflaming wars, it's not wanting to see Europe nuked, there is no shadowy "elitist gang." You'd be able to name them all if you could, but you keep mentioning fallacies about Soros, even though all he's really ever done is donate to Dems and be born a Jew (aka, bull**** conspiracy fodder). You've even insisted many times over the years that in America straight guys are pariah.
This is why when it comes to Germany I will always defer to the Germans and the sources they provide over what you say and the sources you don't even summarize.

 

[Estro Felino]

See? Why should I believe one singly word you say about Germany, or accept your sources as valid, when it's well established you don't get America right? America is not inflaming wars, it's not wanting to see Europe nuked, there is no shadowy "elitist gang."

Of course...American citizens love Europe.
I meant very few élites.

This is why when it comes to Germany I will always defer to the Germans and the sources they provide over what you say and the sources you don't even summarize.

Exactly.
But in order to understand why these two federal regions voted for AfD, you should ask them directly.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Of course...American citizens love Europe.

Actually lots of us do, especially those of us who can find other countries on a map.

Exactly.
But in order to understand why these two federal regions voted for AfD, you should ask them directly.

Yes. But as I pointed out this is not an isolated incident and we are seeing the emergence and rise of the violent Far Right around the world.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Excuse me, but...
I had told you guys that siding with the elitist cabal of warmongers overseas would just cause the undoing of the Left...
Being pro-war causes this.

The USA want a world war and want Europe to be turned into a battlefield.
It's obvious that people vote for AfD. The only alternative.

Right.... that's the reason.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I know nothing sbout German politics. So help me out - what constitutes'far-right'? Is it simply because they are concerned with the state of immigration in their country today?

I would expect so, yes.

It's also the reason extreme right in Belgium has been achieving results from 20 to 30% every election.
Every time you ask one of their voters why they for them, all you really get is a rant about immigrants.

They don't even realize what they vote for. They mostly have no clue about the actual program of these parties... how they view taxes, business, free market, economy, job market, health care, education,.... you know, the actual important stuff in running a country.
All they know is "no more foreigners" and that's what they vote for.

You can summarize their entire reasoning for voting extreme right in a single cartoon

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Got any evidence for that?

Coffee came out of my nose from laughter

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We know from historical experience how a democracy can self-destruct when extremists gain support. That's why Germany is a defensive democracy. When our courts allow the services to have a party under surveillance, it means they are suspected to be anti-democratic extremists. Based on the results of the surveillance, the democratic parties may ask the courts to ban the party in question.

On that note, I do have to say many German restrictions make way more sense to me than other countries like France. Like to me no religious jewelry in public just seems trivial and dumb. But no Nazi stuff and monitoring and banning parties? In the aftermath of WWII we perhaps should have all taken to that like we did the VW. Those are dangerous things. Rights going out the window is the least of everyone's concern when extremism takes over, because people get killed and wars happen (leading to more people getting killed). Freedom of speech is very important, but not so important we don't work to actively and passively prevent it from happening again.
But unfortunately not even Japan or Italy took such massive efforts to balk at future wide-awake-nightmare-ocracies.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Because sending weapons to Ukraine in order to attack Russia is unconstitutional, violating article 26.

It is not.

So I believe that a Constitutional Court as the BVG is should focus on the unconstitutional laws, instead of believing in unsubstantiated claims about AfD.

I assure you that the people working at the constitutional court know more about it then you do.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The topic here is: why do you think Germans voted for AfD?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's also the reason extreme right in Belgium has been achieving results from 20 to 30% every election.
Every time you ask one of their voters why they for them, all you really get is a rant about immigrants.

That's a lot of places recently. And if you've followed the news over the years and today, you'll find misinformation spread on social media fueling it again and again and again.
It's always immigrants because anti-immigrant stories appeals to thousands of years of evolutionary driven tribalism, and in social media their algorithms have ended up exploiting that because it elicits emotional outrage towards outsiders, and the more morally outraging content is the more engagement it creates which has it getting promoted by the algorithms, algorithms designed to maximize user engagement.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That's a lot of places recently. And if you've followed the news over the years and today, you'll find misinformation spread on social media fueling it again and again and again.
It's always immigrants because anti-immigrant stories appeals to thousands of years of evolutionary driven tribalism, and in social media their algorithms have ended up exploiting that because it elicits emotional outrage towards outsiders, and the more morally outraging content is the more engagement it creates which has it getting promoted by the algorithms, algorithms designed to maximize user engagement.

Indeed. The "anti immigrant" political discourse indeed touches upon a deeply rooted psychological weakness of humans: the satisfaction of feeling like you can blame "someone else" for all problems.

Rise in crime? => foreigners are criminals
No jobs? => foreigners took them
Budgetary problems? => foreigners are receiving wellfare / health care

Whatever the issue, you can blame it on the scapegoat and pretend that everything will be solved automagically if you kick the scapegoat out (or otherwise eliminate them)

 

[Audie]

Not looking good...

German far-right heading for vote win in east - exit poll

Is there such a thing as far left or only far right

 

[Father Heathen]

It is serious.

This thread is about Europe.... so please speak of the topic. Thank you.

Right, real Europe. Not fantasy land Europe.

 

[Estro Felino]

Right, real Europe. Not fantasy land Europe.

Explain me the difference between Christian Democrats and AfD then. CDU-CSU and AfD.
I want to learn from you.

 

[Flankerl]

Thanks for the info but saying they under surveillance by the German government does not convince me of anything considering the lack of basic freedoms in that country. If I have time later I will look them up.

Oh look an American.
The guys who literally banned the Nazi Party in Germany.

Damn Nazis are everywhere,the cross of st George,Union Jack,the French tricolour,stars and stripes,the far right are everywhere wtf can we do?.

Whether you like it or not the AfD is a fascist party.

I would expect so, yes.

Or the part where the AfD held a meeting in November 2023 on what to do after taking power, main topic: Who get's to stay, obviously along ethnic lines and family descend, not citizenship.

Also rescinding the right to vote along ethnic lines was discussed.

Very normal.
Nothing to worry about!

Is there such a thing as far left or only far right

If only one could read the article.

 

[Father Heathen]

Explain me the difference between Christian Democrats and AfD then. CDU-CSU and AfD.
I want to learn from you.

The Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and the Christian Social Union (CSU) are two center-right political parties in Germany that often operate together as a single bloc, especially in the Bundestag (Germany's federal parliament). The Alternative for Germany (AfD) is a right-wing populist party. Here’s a breakdown of the differences between them:

1. Political Ideology:​

• CDU/CSU:
  • Center-Right: The CDU/CSU are traditionally conservative and Christian-democratic, advocating for social market economy principles, a strong European Union, and moderate social policies.
  • Pro-European Union: They strongly support European integration and are key players in the EU's development.
  • Social Conservatism: While they uphold conservative values, especially on family and societal issues, they are more moderate compared to far-right ideologies.
• AfD:
  • Right-Wing Populism: The AfD is more nationalist and populist, often focusing on anti-immigration policies, skepticism towards the European Union, and opposition to what they see as the political establishment.
  • Euroscepticism: The AfD has a much more critical stance on the EU, with some factions even advocating for Germany to leave the Eurozone or the EU itself.
  • Nationalism and Anti-Immigration: The AfD emphasizes national sovereignty, strict immigration control, and often campaigns on issues related to German identity and cultural preservation.

2. Immigration and Refugee Policy:​

• CDU/CSU:
  • Controlled Immigration: The CDU/CSU supports controlled immigration and has been involved in policies that integrate immigrants into German society. They were in power during the 2015 refugee crisis when Chancellor Angela Merkel famously allowed over a million refugees to enter Germany.
  • Integration Focus: They emphasize the importance of integrating immigrants into society, including learning the German language and understanding German laws and values.
• AfD:
  • Strict Anti-Immigration Stance: The AfD is strongly opposed to immigration, particularly from non-European countries. They often campaign on anti-refugee platforms and argue that immigration threatens German culture and security.
  • Opposition to Refugees: The AfD was formed partly in response to the 2015 refugee crisis, and they vehemently opposed Merkel’s open-door policy.

3. Economic Policy:​

• CDU/CSU:
  • Social Market Economy: The CDU/CSU supports a social market economy, balancing free-market capitalism with social policies that provide a safety net for the less fortunate.
  • Fiscal Conservatism: They advocate for balanced budgets and responsible fiscal policies, often emphasizing the importance of reducing public debt.
• AfD:
  • Economic Nationalism: The AfD often promotes protectionist and nationalist economic policies, with a focus on German industry and reducing Germany’s financial contributions to the EU.
  • Skepticism of Globalization: They are critical of globalization and its impact on German jobs and industries, advocating for policies that prioritize German businesses and workers.

4. Foreign Policy:​

• CDU/CSU:
  • Pro-Western Alliances: The CDU/CSU is firmly committed to NATO, the EU, and close ties with the United States. They support Germany’s role in international institutions and alliances.
  • Strong EU Advocate: They believe in a strong, united Europe and have been key drivers of EU integration.
• AfD:
  • National Sovereignty: The AfD is more skeptical of international alliances and often advocates for policies that prioritize national sovereignty over multinational agreements.
  • Criticism of NATO and the EU: While not universally against NATO, they are more critical of Germany’s role in international alliances and often push for reducing Germany’s involvement in the EU.

5. Social Issues and Values:​

• CDU/CSU:
  • Moderate Social Conservatism: The CDU/CSU holds traditional views on family and societal issues but has gradually adopted more progressive stances on issues like same-sex marriage and gender equality.
  • Christian Values: As Christian-democratic parties, they emphasize Christian values in their policies, though they are committed to upholding religious freedom for all.
• AfD:
  • Cultural Conservatism: The AfD takes a harder line on social issues, often promoting traditional gender roles and opposing policies they see as undermining German culture or traditions.
  • Opposition to Political Correctness: The AfD often criticizes what they perceive as the political correctness of mainstream parties, positioning themselves as defenders of free speech against perceived liberal censorship.

6. Electoral Base:​

• CDU/CSU:
  • Broad Appeal: The CDU/CSU appeals to a wide range of voters, from urban professionals to rural conservatives, and has historically been one of Germany’s major parties.
  • Mainstream Conservative Voters: Their supporters generally favor stability, moderate conservatism, and a strong European Union.
• AfD:
  • Populist Appeal: The AfD’s base includes voters who feel left behind by globalization, are concerned about immigration, or are dissatisfied with the political establishment.
  • Protest Voters: They attract voters who are disillusioned with the traditional parties, including those who feel that the CDU/CSU has moved too far to the center.

Conclusion:​

The CDU/CSU and the AfD differ significantly in their political ideologies, policy positions, and the types of voters they attract. The CDU/CSU is a centrist, pro-European, and socially conservative alliance, while the AfD is a right-wing populist party with strong nationalist and anti-immigration stances. The CDU/CSU has been a pillar of the German political establishment for decades, while the AfD represents a more recent, radical challenge to that establishment.

Source: chatGPT, lol

 

[Estro Felino]

The Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and the Christian Social Union (CSU) are two center-right political parties in Germany that often operate together as a single bloc, especially in the Bundestag (Germany's federal parliament). The Alternative for Germany (AfD) is a right-wing populist party. Here’s a breakdown of the differences between them:

1. Political Ideology:​

• CDU/CSU:
  • Center-Right: The CDU/CSU are traditionally conservative and Christian-democratic, advocating for social market economy principles, a strong European Union, and moderate social policies.
  • Pro-European Union: They strongly support European integration and are key players in the EU's development.
  • Social Conservatism: While they uphold conservative values, especially on family and societal issues, they are more moderate compared to far-right ideologies.
• AfD:
  • Right-Wing Populism: The AfD is more nationalist and populist, often focusing on anti-immigration policies, skepticism towards the European Union, and opposition to what they see as the political establishment.
  • Euroscepticism: The AfD has a much more critical stance on the EU, with some factions even advocating for Germany to leave the Eurozone or the EU itself.
  • Nationalism and Anti-Immigration: The AfD emphasizes national sovereignty, strict immigration control, and often campaigns on issues related to German identity and cultural preservation.

2. Immigration and Refugee Policy:​

• CDU/CSU:
  • Controlled Immigration: The CDU/CSU supports controlled immigration and has been involved in policies that integrate immigrants into German society. They were in power during the 2015 refugee crisis when Chancellor Angela Merkel famously allowed over a million refugees to enter Germany.
  • Integration Focus: They emphasize the importance of integrating immigrants into society, including learning the German language and understanding German laws and values.
• AfD:
  • Strict Anti-Immigration Stance: The AfD is strongly opposed to immigration, particularly from non-European countries. They often campaign on anti-refugee platforms and argue that immigration threatens German culture and security.
  • Opposition to Refugees: The AfD was formed partly in response to the 2015 refugee crisis, and they vehemently opposed Merkel’s open-door policy.

3. Economic Policy:​

• CDU/CSU:
  • Social Market Economy: The CDU/CSU supports a social market economy, balancing free-market capitalism with social policies that provide a safety net for the less fortunate.
  • Fiscal Conservatism: They advocate for balanced budgets and responsible fiscal policies, often emphasizing the importance of reducing public debt.
• AfD:
  • Economic Nationalism: The AfD often promotes protectionist and nationalist economic policies, with a focus on German industry and reducing Germany’s financial contributions to the EU.
  • Skepticism of Globalization: They are critical of globalization and its impact on German jobs and industries, advocating for policies that prioritize German businesses and workers.

4. Foreign Policy:​

• CDU/CSU:
  • Pro-Western Alliances: The CDU/CSU is firmly committed to NATO, the EU, and close ties with the United States. They support Germany’s role in international institutions and alliances.
  • Strong EU Advocate: They believe in a strong, united Europe and have been key drivers of EU integration.
• AfD:
  • National Sovereignty: The AfD is more skeptical of international alliances and often advocates for policies that prioritize national sovereignty over multinational agreements.
  • Criticism of NATO and the EU: While not universally against NATO, they are more critical of Germany’s role in international alliances and often push for reducing Germany’s involvement in the EU.

5. Social Issues and Values:​

• CDU/CSU:
  • Moderate Social Conservatism: The CDU/CSU holds traditional views on family and societal issues but has gradually adopted more progressive stances on issues like same-sex marriage and gender equality.
  • Christian Values: As Christian-democratic parties, they emphasize Christian values in their policies, though they are committed to upholding religious freedom for all.
• AfD:
  • Cultural Conservatism: The AfD takes a harder line on social issues, often promoting traditional gender roles and opposing policies they see as undermining German culture or traditions.
  • Opposition to Political Correctness: The AfD often criticizes what they perceive as the political correctness of mainstream parties, positioning themselves as defenders of free speech against perceived liberal censorship.

6. Electoral Base:​

• CDU/CSU:
  • Broad Appeal: The CDU/CSU appeals to a wide range of voters, from urban professionals to rural conservatives, and has historically been one of Germany’s major parties.
  • Mainstream Conservative Voters: Their supporters generally favor stability, moderate conservatism, and a strong European Union.
• AfD:
  • Populist Appeal: The AfD’s base includes voters who feel left behind by globalization, are concerned about immigration, or are dissatisfied with the political establishment.
  • Protest Voters: They attract voters who are disillusioned with the traditional parties, including those who feel that the CDU/CSU has moved too far to the center.

Conclusion:​

The CDU/CSU and the AfD differ significantly in their political ideologies, policy positions, and the types of voters they attract. The CDU/CSU is a centrist, pro-European, and socially conservative alliance, while the AfD is a right-wing populist party with strong nationalist and anti-immigration stances. The CDU/CSU has been a pillar of the German political establishment for decades, while the AfD represents a more recent, radical challenge to that establishment.

Source: chatGPT, lol

Perfectly thorough.
And on the basis of this difference, I guess it's understandable why many rightist voters decide to vote for AfD and not for CDU, right?

 

[Regiomontanus]

We know from historical experience how a democracy can self-destruct when extremists gain support. That's why Germany is a defensive democracy. When our courts allow the services to have a party under surveillance, it means they are suspected to be anti-democratic extremists. Based on the results of the surveillance, the democratic parties may ask the courts to ban the party in question.

That makes sense in principle. It is just not clear to me what constitutes 'anti-democratic extremists'.

Would Trump's Republican party be monitored/banned there, do you think?

 

[Yerda]

Not looking good for leftists and globalists, you mean.

Don't forget ethnic minorities, homosexuals, women, trans people, Jews, Muslims and basically anyone else who isn't also a fascist.