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Florida: We'll take your trans kids in other states
- Thread starter Shadow Wolf
- Start date
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Lots of meth amd worse drugs and lots Bible Thumpers in both so I don't see how it's much of difference.
Total side note, but I always thought it was awesome listening to Corey Taylor talking about how much Iowa and Indiana are alike. And because I've seen Slipknot and Stone Sour a bunch of times each (he's definitely one of my favorite performers to see) he's one of my top informants on this, lol.
If I recall right(and please correct me if I'm wrong, because I might be), Corey lived in Evansdale for awhile. Evansdale is a special kind of trashy...
I live in a place called Waterloo, which might be a little... off the beaten path. Though I got bullied now and again growing up by Bible Thumpers, I also got bullied pretty badly in adulthood by some members of a UU church and a local atheist group. The crime rate is high(gang culture is a big deal here), and its certainly not uncommon to be a victim(or near victim) of a violent crime or robbery. (I sure am.) We are not a good picture of what most of Iowa looks like, I don't think.
Look, I ...
... am becoming more and more sadly aware that more conservatives lack basic science knowledge that more liberals possess. I won't pretend I know why that is, but it is the case, and there's tons of evidence out there to support my assertion.
And the science knowledge appropriate in this case is that "identity" (how one thinks about one's self) is not the same thing as physical body expression. (This should be clear to anyone who has ever owned a Jack Russell terrier, who doesn't know that he isn't the biggest dog on the block.)
Identity is a thing of the mind. What sort of person imagines that the mind is wrong about what it thinks and feels? What it thinks and feels is "who it is." And it doesn't matter in the slightest what bodily bits may be attached or missing.
And science has learned -- and again, there is good evidence for this -- that hormones in utero can affect development of different parts of the body at different times, partly through genetics, partly through genes expression and quiessence through epigentic processes. Thus, it is entirely possible to grow a female brain with a body that contains a penis and testicles.
Why can't conservatives cope with this? They can cope with the fact that a child may be born with a deformity that deprives it of a foot, and still grant that person to feel they can do what anybody else can do. But once you get a penis, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. Your brain is mere junk to this sort of person, because they can only cope with what they see. They can't see your feelings, so they can safely ignore them (though I rather suspect they can't ignore their own -- in fact, I know it, since that's part of this rant).
This whole business of "your body is the only real you, your mind is just junk" leaves them totally bereft of any sense of compassion, any empathy.
But it's only about sex -- anything else, they'd have little trouble with. And it is my opinion that that is because everything about sex scares conservatives way, way more than it scares liberals, who generally rather enjoy it and then stop fussing about it.
As Stephen Fry once pointed out in a debate alongside Christopher Hitchens, about the Catholic Church, "It's the strangest thing about this church: it's obsessed with sex, absolutely obsessed."
(quote above at 1:03:55)
And the science knowledge appropriate in this case is that "identity" (how one thinks about one's self) is not the same thing as physical body expression. (This should be clear to anyone who has ever owned a Jack Russell terrier, who doesn't know that he isn't the biggest dog on the block.)
Identity is a thing of the mind. What sort of person imagines that the mind is wrong about what it thinks and feels? What it thinks and feels is "who it is." And it doesn't matter in the slightest what bodily bits may be attached or missing.
And science has learned -- and again, there is good evidence for this -- that hormones in utero can affect development of different parts of the body at different times, partly through genetics, partly through genes expression and quiessence through epigentic processes. Thus, it is entirely possible to grow a female brain with a body that contains a penis and testicles.
Why can't conservatives cope with this? They can cope with the fact that a child may be born with a deformity that deprives it of a foot, and still grant that person to feel they can do what anybody else can do. But once you get a penis, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. Your brain is mere junk to this sort of person, because they can only cope with what they see. They can't see your feelings, so they can safely ignore them (though I rather suspect they can't ignore their own -- in fact, I know it, since that's part of this rant).
This whole business of "your body is the only real you, your mind is just junk" leaves them totally bereft of any sense of compassion, any empathy.
But it's only about sex -- anything else, they'd have little trouble with. And it is my opinion that that is because everything about sex scares conservatives way, way more than it scares liberals, who generally rather enjoy it and then stop fussing about it.
As Stephen Fry once pointed out in a debate alongside Christopher Hitchens, about the Catholic Church, "It's the strangest thing about this church: it's obsessed with sex, absolutely obsessed."
InChrist
Free4ever
Who knows whether that bill will pass or not, but one way or another trans kids need to get the real help they need, rather than just being pushed through a system which is focused more on profit than concern about their lives.
I Thought I Was Saving Trans Kids. Now I’m Blowing the Whistle.
There are more than 100 pediatric gender clinics across the U.S. I worked at one. What’s happening to children is morally and medically appalling.
“I left the clinic in November of last year because I could no longer participate in what was happening there. By the time I departed, I was certain that the way the American medical system is treating these patients is the opposite of the promise we make to “do no harm.” Instead, we are permanently harming the vulnerable patients in our care.
Today I am speaking out. I am doing so knowing how toxic the public conversation is around this highly contentious issue—and the ways that my testimony might be misused. I am doing so knowing that I am putting myself at serious personal and professional risk.
Almost everyone in my life advised me to keep my head down. But I cannot in good conscience do so. Because what is happening to scores of children is far more important than my comfort. And what is happening to them is morally and medically appalling.”
“One of the saddest cases of detransition I witnessed was a teenage girl, who, like so many of our patients, came from an unstable family, was in an uncertain living situation, and had a history of drug use. The overwhelming majority of our patients are white, but this girl was black. She was put on hormones at the center when she was around 16. When she was 18, she went in for a double mastectomy, what’s known as “top surgery.”
Three months later she called the surgeon’s office to say she was going back to her birth name and that her pronouns were “she” and “her.” Heartbreakingly, she told the nurse, “I want my breasts back.” The surgeon’s office contacted our office because they didn’t know what to say to this girl.”
“Then I came across comments from Dr. Rachel Levine, a transgender woman who is a high official at the federal Department of Health and Human Services. The article read: “Levine, the U.S. assistant secretary for health, said that clinics are proceeding carefully and that no American children are receiving drugs or hormones for gender dysphoria who shouldn’t.”
I felt stunned and sickened. It wasn’t true. And I know that from deep first-hand experience.
So I started writing down everything I could about my experience at the Transgender Center. Two weeks ago, I brought my concerns and documents to the attention of Missouri’s attorney general. He is a Republican. I am a progressive. But the safety of children should not be a matter for our culture wars.
Click here to read Jamie Reed’s letter to the Missouri AG.
Given the secrecy and lack of rigorous standards that characterize youth gender transition across the country, I believe that to ensure the safety of American children, we need a moratorium on the hormonal and surgical treatment of young people with gender dysphoria.
In the past 15 years, according to Reuters, the U.S. has gone from having no pediatric gender clinics to more than 100. A thorough analysis should be undertaken to find out what has been done to their patients and why—and what the long-term consequences are.
There is a clear path for us to follow. Just last year England announced that it would close the Tavistock’s youth gender clinic, then the NHS’s only such clinic in the country, after an investigation revealed shoddy practices and poor patient treatment. Sweden and Finland, too, have investigated pediatric transition and greatly curbed the practice, finding there is insufficient evidence of help, and danger of great harm.
Some critics describe the kind of treatment offered at places like the Transgender Center where I worked as a kind of national experiment. But that’s wrong.
Experiments are supposed to be carefully designed. Hypotheses are supposed to be tested ethically. The doctors I worked alongside at the Transgender Center said frequently about the treatment of our patients: “We are building the plane while we are flying it.” No one should be a passenger on that kind of aircraft.”
I Thought I Was Saving Trans Kids. Now I’m Blowing the Whistle.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
"But patients at the clinic and their parents say the allegations by Reed, who was a case manager at the clinic and does not have a medical degree, don’t align with their experiences, according to two reports published Wednesday."
nypost.com/2023/03/02/parents-hit-back-at-missouri-trans-clinic-whistleblower-jamie-reed/amp/
And that's from the NYPost!
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Beat me to it!
Is there a reason, I wonder, why members of this forum are not asked by professionals for our opinions on such matters? I mean, from what I read, it seems we think we know everything and what should and should not be done. But do we?
"The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias whereby people with low ability, expertise, or experience regarding a certain type of task or area of knowledge tend to overestimate their ability or knowledge. Some researchers also include the opposite effect for high performers: their tendency to underestimate their skills. In popular culture, the Dunning–Kruger effect is often misunderstood as a claim about general overconfidence of people with low intelligence instead of specific overconfidence of people unskilled at a particular task."
Come on, folks, let's not pretend that we're the experts -- and let's not let politicians, whose greatest skills are getting people to believe them and give them money -- are the experts, either.
"The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias whereby people with low ability, expertise, or experience regarding a certain type of task or area of knowledge tend to overestimate their ability or knowledge. Some researchers also include the opposite effect for high performers: their tendency to underestimate their skills. In popular culture, the Dunning–Kruger effect is often misunderstood as a claim about general overconfidence of people with low intelligence instead of specific overconfidence of people unskilled at a particular task."
Come on, folks, let's not pretend that we're the experts -- and let's not let politicians, whose greatest skills are getting people to believe them and give them money -- are the experts, either.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Things like evolution and global warming denial already have them primed. The NRA tells them not to believe studies highlighting gun violence. They were told at multiple levels not believe Biden won.
And living here is getting scary.
You presume that living with MAGA is a growing and learning experience. I don't. I have no interest in their opinions or what they want, and prefer to not see or hear them. I've been hearing them for years, and it's the same failed moral and intellectual garbage. What do you see from them on RF? Do you read those OPs seriously, like they might contain some new and important insight about Hunter Biden's laptop or something Kamala Harris said? How about this CPAC thing going on now? Are you tuning in looking for insightful conservative commentary from Trump or Greene or Gaetz? Not everybody has something to say worth hearing. And do you really want to share your world with them and their guns and their bigotries and their assaults on school boards and their voting?
You'd have people who are more compatible with one another clustering. That's the purpose. Tolerance does not include tolerating intolerance. People who prefer tolerant societies are happy to marginalize the intolerant, and I assume that the intolerant don't want to be with the mutually tolerant, either. The keep calling them woke.
The absurdity of red states is how their representatives will not ote for bills that spend money, like the infrastructure bill, or Medicaid, or food assistance, but then will eagerly accept the money they get and even brag about it to their constituents. I think bills should refuse money to districts that their representatives don't vote for. There needs to be consequences for political grandstanding.
syo
Well-Known Member
What's ''prejudiced''?
It's clear De Santis wants to turn Florida into a shrine of Conservatorism...
Like a happy town...
In my humble opinion, of course.
But that doesn't mean that Floridian LGBTs will have less rights.
Like a happy town...
In my humble opinion, of course.
But that doesn't mean that Floridian LGBTs will have less rights.
It does get tiresome to not have very much viable debate/discussion with the far right MAGAs because so often it is more a case of them making false, untrue statements, and then working to correct their errors. They often reject the correction, which follows with reasons that defy reason. Conservative politics has followed the model of conservative Christianity in how it deals with science.
The only way my family can have successful reunions is to not talk politics. It gets brought up a few times but shut down quickly. Only a few of my familiy knows how liberal I am. I'm willing to talk if others are, but most of them are republican, and my dad and stepmom have said things that suggest they are committed FOX viewers. I do not respond because I know from experience with conservatives on forums that the dispute will be over assumptions that are baseless (democrats are socialist, Biden is a puppet, Bernie is a nutcase, AOC is dangerous, woke agenda, etc.).
It's interesting that my stepsister's husband's son is gay, and the family being republican must know there is a conflict. He brings his boyfriend to family functions, and they are accepted. Without this close and personal example would they tolerate gays as a concept? I don't know. I think this is one reason why gays are more and ore off limits and trans and drag people are targeted more these days. These are rare categories and the chance any arbitrary citizen knows one of these folks is low. Easy targets. I think it shameful that this is how a poiltical party in the USA conducts tself, and the vast majority call themselves Christian.
How will it be "happy" by limiting the rights of trans people, and limiting education on subjects uncomfortable to conservatives?
And the point of the new laws IS less rights to LGTBQ citizens. Are you reading far right media?
syo
Well-Known Member
Nah. A waste of time.