For Muslims: Is Muhammad the last Prophet from God?

[TransmutingSoul]

Why don't any Muslims believe Angels (a) are humans? Why is only Bahais who come up with this conclusion?

If your Prophet did not tell you Angels were saintly humans and God's Angels are Prophets and the chosen ones, do you think you would arrive at this conclusion?

The reasonable answer is the common sense of humans would believe Angels to be non-humans when reading Quran. You have to override reasoning and common sense of language to arrive at a different conclusion.

This is just a sample.

So now you want to talk about Angels?

New OP maybe.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

So now you want to talk about Angles?

Angels, not angles, lol.
Sorry Tony, my dad was an English professor.

 

[paarsurrey]

For Muslims: Is Muhammad the last Prophet from God?

Muhammad is last in status/rank on the vertical axis, not the last in time, please, right?

Regards

 

[CG Didymus]

The best way to answer that question is to read what they offered. That will take time, as Abdul'baha and Shoghi Effendi offered a great deal of advice, 60 years of it, but it will give you the picture of the current world. Both Abdul'baha and Shoghi Effendi got their ability to explain the results of Baha’u’llah's Message via the Covenant given by Baha'u'llah, when one understands that Covernant, one can also understand how what they offered is accurate.

All the best CG, I see no point of going into this in detail again. I have passed on all that I should, it would be up to any individual if they now choose to pursue what was offered in greater detail.

Getting it secondhand just gets polluted by the deficiencies of the delivery.

Regards Tony

Yeah, no problem. But I already went through the whole thing of Baha'is misinterpreting things and claiming that the lesser peace would happen by the year 2000. In 1970, with the peace movements, civil rights and equality movements, it seemed very likely things could lead to the lesser peace very quickly.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yeah, no problem. But I already went through the whole thing of Baha'is misinterpreting things and claiming that the lesser peace would happen by the year 2000. In 1970, with the peace movements, civil rights and equality movements, it seemed very likely things could lead to the lesser peace very quickly.

Now you see why one should determine that for themselves, I did not get that picture from the Writings as no one knows that time CG.

People always hope they see that day, but Gods time expands beyond our time limits.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

The Jews do not require the Bible or Quran interpretations, the Chrisrians do not require the Quran interpretations, so likewise you offer the Musilms do not need the Revelation of Baha’u’llah for interpretation, yet history proves that a Messenger is required to clarify past scriptures.

Would you say Muhammad imposed the correct interpretation on the Bible to the Christians? I would suggest Muhammad gave the Revelation from God giving the ability to see the Bible in the Light given by God, but God never imposes.

I think each side has good reasons to reject the "corrections" made by the person claiming to be the new prophet.
For Christians, it is obvious that the Jews aren't understanding or interpreting their Scriptures correctly.

Coming for an Islamic background, I can see why they believe that Christians are wrong.

And now you with the Baha'i Faith, easy to see from your "frame" of reference, but to a Jew, a Christian, or a Muslim... Baha'is are wrong.

So yeah, the frame of reference matters. But from their reasoning, the other religions are the ones wrong, not them. What else would you expect? Do you really think that your interpretations are that profound as to make them see the light?

The Quran tells humans to use reasoning and says it's a way to avoid hell. The way Quran corrects the Torah and Bible is logical. It doesn't make sense for example for Solomon (a) to be emphasized to be chosen from God and wise, then dies a pagan after God chose him. Other corrections makes sense too.

However, the Bahai Faith, you would not through reasoning arrive at the conclusions your Prophet came up with. It's far fetch interpretations and is not appealing to reason, but appealing to forego reason and common sense.

Yes, Link is giving an example.

Why don't any Muslims believe Angels (a) are humans? Why is only Bahais who come up with this conclusion?

If your Prophet did not tell you Angels were saintly humans and God's Angels are Prophets and the chosen ones, do you think you would arrive at this conclusion?

And then another example... Why would a person interpret things and come to those same conclusions that Baha'u'llah does if they weren't a believer?

So now you want to talk about Angels?

No, those were examples. And in the Bible, I think there is a real good case for angels being spirit-beings, which sometimes appeared as humans. So, what does that mean? Maybe that the Baha'i interpretation is wrong.

It is part of this debate... Are Muslims interpreting things wrong? Or... is it Baha'is? And to a Christian, you're both wrong. Then to a Jew? Well, we can guess what they probably would say.

 

[CG Didymus]

Now you see why one should determine that for themselves, I did not get that picture from the Writings as no one knows that time CG.

People always hope they see that day, but Gods time expands beyond our time limits.

Regards Tony

There was also a lot of Pilgrim's Notes being quoted. I remember some Baha'is saying San Francisco would be vaporized. Something that at that time seemed very likely to happen. A nuclear war would have been just the thing to devastate the world to a point where turning to the Baha'is might have been the last and only option.

Now with nuclear war still being a possibility and add to that environmental catastrophe, what would the people of the world do? Turning to the Baha'i Faith might be their best option.

Or... maybe some guy comes riding down from the sky on a white horse to save the day. But, of course, that would be foolish to believe that.

 

[England my lionheart]

The only possible outcome to that line of argument is that your standard of proof is not relevant.

My standard of proof is relevant,it’s just different to faith.

 

[England my lionheart]

The only possible outcome to that line of argument is that your standard of proof is not relevant.

Or you don’t have any.

 

[Ebionite]

Or you don’t have any.

Wrong, your statement implies that you are the one evaluating the proof. I didn't claim to have proof.

 

[England my lionheart]

Wrong, your statement implies that you are the one evaluating the proof. I didn't claim to have proof.

Ok,although there isn’t any proof to evaluate.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I think each side has good reasons to reject the "corrections" made by the person claiming to be the new prophet.
For Christians, it is obvious that the Jews aren't understanding or interpreting their Scriptures correctly.

Coming for an Islamic background, I can see why they believe that Christians are wrong.

And now you with the Baha'i Faith, easy to see from your "frame" of reference, but to a Jew, a Christian, or a Muslim... Baha'is are wrong.

So yeah, the frame of reference matters. But from their reasoning, the other religions are the ones wrong, not them. What else would you expect? Do you really think that your interpretations are that profound as to make them see the light?

Yes, Link is giving an example.

And then another example... Why would a person interpret things and come to those same conclusions that Baha'u'llah does if they weren't a believer?

No, those were examples. And in the Bible, I think there is a real good case for angels being spirit-beings, which sometimes appeared as humans. So, what does that mean? Maybe that the Baha'i interpretation is wrong.

It is part of this debate... Are Muslims interpreting things wrong? Or... is it Baha'is? And to a Christian, you're both wrong. Then to a Jew? Well, we can guess what they probably would say.

The reason I believe why religion is being abandoned is because it has been misused instead of what it originally was meant for - love and brotherhood.

In our age the most urgent need is for everyone to get along peacefully.

Belief that Muhammad is the last Prophet is fine but this belief shouldn’t cause minorities to be persecuted.

 

[CG Didymus]

The reason I believe why religion is being abandoned is because it has been misused instead of what it originally was meant for - love and brotherhood.

In our age the most urgent need is for everyone to get along peacefully.

Belief that Muhammad is the last Prophet is fine but this belief shouldn’t cause minorities to be persecuted.

Unfortunately, some things written in to the Scriptures of a religion make it sound like it is the "only" way. And people that don't believe it are evil and are the enemies of God.

That is part of the barrier you Baha'is are facing. I think there are verses that can be used to "prove" that Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith are not a true religion. Muslims can do it. Christians can do it.

If the Baha'i Faith is the truth, it's kind of sad that the world will have to pretty much fall apart before the people of the world will give the Baha'i Faith a chance.

But, as things are now, even I can easily find things that don't make sense and make me question whether or not the Baha'i Faith is the truth.

I've said this before... All Baha'is can do is be the best they can be. Arguing, coming off as if they "know" their religion is "The Truth" doesn't win over very many people.

Most of us know that Baha'is don't believe in some of the things taught in the other religions. That doesn't help either. How can a Baha'is honestly say that they believe in the "truth" of all the other religions, and then tell them about the beliefs they have wrong?

You, Adrian and a couple others are at least trying to build some bridges and show a little respect for people in the other religions. But some Baha'is sound almost as bad as the worst Fundamentalist, that believes their religion is the one and only way.

 

[Ebionite]

Ok,although there isn’t any proof to evaluate.

Yes, I'm aware of your prejudice.

 

[muhammad_isa]

People always hope they see that day, but Gods time expands beyond our time limits..

Right .. what's this "time to say goodbye" ?
Do you know something I don't?

Are you expecting a nuclear holocaust, or something?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Unfortunately, some things written in to the Scriptures of a religion make it sound like it is the "only" way. And people that don't believe it are evil and are the enemies of God.

That is part of the barrier you Baha'is are facing. I think there are verses that can be used to "prove" that Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith are not a true religion. Muslims can do it. Christians can do it.

If the Baha'i Faith is the truth, it's kind of sad that the world will have to pretty much fall apart before the people of the world will give the Baha'i Faith a chance.

But, as things are now, even I can easily find things that don't make sense and make me question whether or not the Baha'i Faith is the truth.

I've said this before... All Baha'is can do is be the best they can be. Arguing, coming off as if they "know" their religion is "The Truth" doesn't win over very many people.

Most of us know that Baha'is don't believe in some of the things taught in the other religions. That doesn't help either. How can a Baha'is honestly say that they believe in the "truth" of all the other religions, and then tell them about the beliefs they have wrong?

You, Adrian and a couple others are at least trying to build some bridges and show a little respect for people in the other religions. But some Baha'is sound almost as bad as the worst Fundamentalist, that believes their religion is the one and only way.

All the Manifestations teach love, peace, brotherhood and virtuous character. Once we divorce ourselves from that and enter the realm of superiority and self righteousness we depart from the true spirit and meaning of religion which is to foster harmony between people. So the religions shun one another because the followers consider each are false or from Satan or some such thing based on varying interpretations.

Regardless of interpretations we should all treat each other with love and respect. But many shun others from other faiths, some persecute and kill them when religion teaches love not hate.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Unfortunately, some things written in to the Scriptures of a religion make it sound like it is the "only" way. And people that don't believe it are evil and are the enemies of God.

That is part of the barrier you Baha'is are facing. I think there are verses that can be used to "prove" that Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith are not a true religion. Muslims can do it. Christians can do it.

If the Baha'i Faith is the truth, it's kind of sad that the world will have to pretty much fall apart before the people of the world will give the Baha'i Faith a chance.

But, as things are now, even I can easily find things that don't make sense and make me question whether or not the Baha'i Faith is the truth.

I've said this before... All Baha'is can do is be the best they can be. Arguing, coming off as if they "know" their religion is "The Truth" doesn't win over very many people.

Most of us know that Baha'is don't believe in some of the things taught in the other religions. That doesn't help either. How can a Baha'is honestly say that they believe in the "truth" of all the other religions, and then tell them about the beliefs they have wrong?

You, Adrian and a couple others are at least trying to build some bridges and show a little respect for people in the other religions. But some Baha'is sound almost as bad as the worst Fundamentalist, that believes their religion is the one and only way.

I’ve been going through some videos of what is being and has been done to the Iranian Baha’is. Anyone who agrees to this treatment must have no shame whatsoever. So many graves desecrated with nameplates destroyed so family members can no longer identify where the remains of their loved ones are buried. Long term jail sentences. Businesses closed. Refusal entry into universities. So much land seized. Rice paddies destroyed. Baha’is taken to the local Mosque and told to either accept Islam or leave their homes. Even one Mulla said to his audience that if any person walks around calling himself a Baha’i he must be killed. My heart sank that humanity has stooped this low. And no one wants to know and no one cares.

And all they have to do is accept Muhammad is the last Prophet.

https://iranbahaipersecution.bic.org/archive/mohsen-qaraati-anyone-who-walks-around-and-says-im-bahai-must-be-killed

 

[England my lionheart]

Yes, I'm aware of your prejudice.

To?

 

[CG Didymus]

Unfortunately, some things written in to the Scriptures of a religion make it sound like it is the "only" way. And people that don't believe it are evil and are the enemies of God.

My heart sank that humanity has stooped this low.

Lots of religions have been that low. Early Christians were killed for blaspheme. Christians tortured and killed Jews for not converting. Christians killed other Christians for being heretics.

What's it been a couple hundred years when people started calling for religious toleration as part of the law of the land. But that's probably not the law in Iran. If they're going by Islamic law, what does the Quran say to do with heretics? If it says to kill them, then that's your God that supposedly gave them that law.

And now Baha'is are coming in and saying that God has changed his mind, that now there are new laws and a new prophet. It wasn't taken very well when Baha'u'llah first declared himself, and it's still not going very well.

But look at the U.S. One political party that has some support from Conservative Christians, is calling for imprisoning and even killing left-wing radicals. We're all just a few steps away from right-wing religious people from wanting to "cleanse" the Earth from evil, God-less people, or, for them even worse, people in false religions that worship false Gods.

And even Baha'is cast out and shun their own people that have broken the Baha'i covenant. Why is that? Do you see them like a disease? Or a rotten fruit that will spoil the other fruit around it? Yes, you don't kill them. But I think it's related to how Baha'is are seen by some Muslims.

How do you fix that? If they "tolerate" you, or even go so far as to let Baha'is practice their religion openly, part of a Baha'i's duty is to teach the Faith. Baha'is are going to try and convert Muslims.

When it comes to religion, people can become very extreme in their beliefs and behavior.

 

[Link]

I’ve been going through some videos of what is being and has been done to the Iranian Baha’is. Anyone who agrees to this treatment must have no shame whatsoever. So many graves desecrated with nameplates destroyed so family members can no longer identify where the remains of their loved ones are buried. Long term jail sentences. Businesses closed. Refusal entry into universities. So much land seized. Rice paddies destroyed. Baha’is taken to the local Mosque and told to either accept Islam or leave their homes. Even one Mulla said to his audience that if any person walks around calling himself a Baha’i he must be killed. My heart sank that humanity has stooped this low. And no one wants to know and no one cares.

And all they have to do is accept Muhammad is the last Prophet.

https://iranbahaipersecution.bic.org/archive/mohsen-qaraati-anyone-who-walks-around-and-says-im-bahai-must-be-killed

Salam

I use to think Bahais are prosecuted. But upon research, I believe it's more to do with security issues and particularly people who side with the enemies of Iran and conspire. Of course, with the propaganda against Iran, it's hard to find the truth in this regard.

I think Iran should accept Bahai Faith as an official religion.