For Parents: If God Told You To...

[Father Heathen]

If there were no written policies and no laws of the land regarding what clothing to wear, that would make a big difference.

But since we have evolved to the point where there ARE laws and there ARE written policies, we have a deeper understanding of the situation.

Also - say there were no laws, no written policies, no precedent (other than the fact that most other companies around had women wearing provocative clothing as a norm - remember that Abraham lived in a time and place where human sacrifices were not uncommon), but the boss KNEW that he was going to tell us when we got there, that he was really giving us the day off - those facts would make a difference too when it was all said and done.

Do we really need written laws and polices to understand that murdering children is unjust? And it's not about the bosses true intentions, it's about ones willingness to comply with, commit or be subjected to heinous acts out of blind, mindless obedience.

 

[waitasec]

So your child only learns to obey by disobeying?

Wow, I didn't teach my kids that way at all.

no not the only way, of course there are those wonderful moments that he does what i ask him to...

look, it's not as if i don't want him to obey me 24/7 it would make my life so much easier and i would have far less grey hairs....

but that is the way he is...he's this head strong person and i don't want to break his spirit...because i believe if someone has that trait and learns what is to be a descent caring human being...i won't worry about him being taken for granted

 

[BobbyisStrange]

So your child only learns to obey by disobeying?

Wow, I didn't teach my kids that way at all.

Im sorry wasn't I just accused to twisting words...I see double standards are you're specialty.

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm done repeating myself by the way.

Then why repeat yourself, especially when it was already refuted the first time?

 

[Me Myself]

Let's put some historical perspective on this.

In Abraham's time, human and child sacrifices were not at all uncommon. It wasn't some unheard of thing in pagan religions. It's not like Abraham would have thought the request was alien or outlandish - no matter how shocking it seems to us now.

Okay, he is not shocked. He was still going to do something immoral because a deity asked him to, and this was celebrated.

The difference is that God knew that Isaac would be spared. He knew that He was setting up a scenario to display the concept of grace, and the differences between following His word, and the teachings of other pagan religions that did require such sacrifices.

People keep talking about God when the question is not about God but about you and about Abraham. We are looking at the human side of the thing. God´s side can only be guessed by faith in here.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

I understand your point, but you're only looking at half the equation.

You don't need know anything else except a man was going to off his son because a god told him to...you know the thing you said you wouldn't do if commanded by god.

 

[Me Myself]

I understand your point, but you're only looking at half the equation.

Why?

In this OP we are talking about wheter it is okay to do something moraly wrong because a figure of spiritual authority asks us to.

Which is the deity and which were their intention isn´t that important here, what´s important is what do you know about the situation and the deity, etc.

Abraham didn´t know he was gong to spare his son, so it is not relevant for the judgement of this topic.

 

[waitasec]

there is one element we are not considering here...
when a parent tells their child to do something, it isn't a voice in their head

so there are 2 things we need to consider...
1. a parents request isn't taken on blind faith as the child knows their parents voice
2. a child learns a parents intentions by empirical evidence

abraham had neither.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

i'm sorry but i believe the point in your question will fall on a lot of deaf ears and you'll most likely get something along the lines of this;
'but he won't, jesus was the ultimate sacrifice...'
:ignore:

Haha are you a prophet?

 

[Father Heathen]

People keep prattling on about god's true intentions, while ignoring the fact that Abraham had the heart of a murderer during that situation. The surprise tweest ("gotcha!" wakka wakka wink wink) doesn't change that at all.

 

[Kathryn]

Then why repeat yourself, especially when it was already refuted the first time?

Refutation is obviously in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Kathryn]

Im sorry wasn't I just accused to twisting words...I see double standards are you're specialty.

Can you please try to keep this debate at an adult level?

 

[Kathryn]

Do we really need written laws and polices to understand that murdering children is unjust? And it's not about the bosses true intentions, it's about ones willingness to comply with, commit or be subjected to heinous acts out of blind, mindless obedience.

Morality does evolve. My gosh, can you imagine the Royal Navy treating it's sailors like it did in the 18th century?

By the way, you're the one that keeps talking about blind obedience. There's a big difference between obedience and blind obedience, but I'm not going to repeat myself.

 

[waitasec]

Haha are you a prophet?

no but i accept fubals...

 

[BobbyisStrange]

Can you please try to keep this debate at an adult level?

I call it how I see it...you accused me of the very same thing you are guilty of.

 

[Kathryn]

You don't need know anything else except a man was going to off his son because a god told him to...you know the thing you said you wouldn't do if commanded by god.

I'm not Abraham. I didn't live in Abraham's time. I have tools and knowledge at my disposal that Abraham didn't have.

I'm repeating myself - AUGH!

And I'll repeat myself again - please keep this debate civil. My suggestion would be to avoid terminology like "You don't need to know anything else except..." That sort of phrase stifles rather than encourages continuing conversation.

Of course, if you can't refrain from that sort of talk, I can always choose to simply not discuss this with you further. I'm considering that route but haven't made my mind up yet.

 

[Kathryn]

Movie time! See ya.

 

[Me Myself]

It´s just that the phrase is accurate in keeping you in subject for the purpose of this thread.

 

[Father Heathen]

The story would've been infinitely better and more meaningful if Abraham defied god's command to murder his child, then while bracing himself for god's wrath, god revealed that he was testing Abraham's moral convictions, and that he was pleased that he stood up for what was just even in the face of fear and authority.

But I guess it would be silly to expect literary genius from people who spent their time wading through goat poop.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

I'm not Abraham. I didn't live in Abraham's time. I have tools and knowledge at my disposal that Abraham didn't have.

I'm repeating myself - AUGH!

And I'll repeat myself again - please keep this debate civil. My suggestion would be to avoid terminology like "You don't need to know anything else except..." That sort of phrase stifles rather than encourages continuing conversation.

Of course, if you can't refrain from that sort of talk, I can always choose to simply not discuss this with you further. I'm considering that route but haven't made my mind up yet.

I wouldn't lose sleep over it...you've made the thread about Abraham, Jesus and Gods plan...totally different than answering a hypothetical question. Me Myself said it correctly, God's motive isn't important, I wanted to know if you would kill your child If your God commanded it. Not what Abraham knew or didn't have at his disposal at the time he was going to MURDER his child.