For Parents: If God Told You To...

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I didn't say we are supposed to UNTHINKINGLY obey. Sometimes, in spite of all our questioning and thinking (which I didn't denounce, by the way), we still can't understand God's perspective. He has a lot more information at hand than we do. He sees the entire picture - we only see a part.

You described a dog's sort of obedience. I think the "unthinking"... or perhaps at least "unquestioning" part was implied.

My point - and I'll make it again, since you seem to have missed it the first go round - is that Abraham didn't have the luxury of all the information we now have about God's character. For instance, he knew nothing of God's plan for a Savior, for grace, for a once and forever sufficient sacrifice of atonement. God had not revealed to mankind at that point what He has revealed to us from our 21st century perspective. God hasn't changed - He continues to reveal more of His character as His plan unfolds.

From the luxury of my 21st century Christianity, I understand that God will not ask us to sacrifice our children on an altar. We have the Bible, and Jesus - two important elements of my faith that were unknown to Abraham.

I think all that's irrelevant, frankly. In order to know that God wouldn't actually want Isaac sacrificed, Abraham would have to know exactly two things:

- God is good
- murdering people is bad

Which of these points was beyond Abraham's understanding?

 

[waitasec]

The story would've been infinitely better and more meaningful if Abraham defied god's command to murder his child, then while bracing himself for god's wrath, god revealed that he was testing Abraham's moral convictions, and that he was pleased that he stood up for what was just even in the face of fear and authority.

But I guess it would be silly to expect literary genius from people who spent their time wading through goat poop.

:spit:
yea, we are asking for way too much...

 

[waitasec]

I wouldn't lose sleep over it...you've made the thread about Abraham, Jesus and Gods plan...totally different than answering a hypothetical question. Me Myself said it correctly, God's motive isn't important, I wanted to know if you would kill your child If your God commanded it. Not what Abraham knew or didn't have at his disposal at the time he was going to MURDER his child.

so i'm not the only one who suffers from ADD?
whew...

 

[Me Myself]

the story would've been infinitely better and more meaningful if abraham defied god's command to murder his child, then while bracing himself for god's wrath, god revealed that he was testing abraham's moral convictions, and that he was pleased that he stood up for what was just even in the face of fear and authority.

exactly!

 

[Rocky S]

This question is aimed at theists...If your God came to you and commanded that you sacrifice your child to him/her/it or them, would you do it?

No, from a biblical perspective it would not be of God, and on another note if you are referring to the story of Abraham, in that particular dispensation that is a picture of Christ.

 

[Sleeppy]

The story would've been infinitely better and more meaningful if Abraham defied god's command to murder his child, then while bracing himself for god's wrath, god revealed that he was testing Abraham's moral convictions, and that he was pleased that he stood up for what was just even in the face of fear and authority.

But I guess it would be silly to expect literary genius from people who spent their time wading through goat poop.

If you actually took the time to read and understand the overlying theme of the entire Bible, you might understand why it was presented in the way that it is. But, we both know your goal isn't actually to understand it. We can be honest about that right?

 

[BobbyisStrange]

No, from a biblical perspective it would not be of God, and on another note if you are referring to the story of Abraham, in that particular dispensation that is a picture of Christ.

I'm not referring to any story... If your God told you to kill your child for it, would you do it...circumstance has nothing to do with it...would you obey your God?

 

[Sleeppy]

It'd save so much time if each person stated their motives, honestly. Some of you are only here to conjure up your own little theories of Bible stories, pass them off as accurate - likely knowing very well that they are extremely biased and lazy assumptions - then belittle the stories themselves after that manufactured ignorance. Why is it you people have nothing better to do?

 

[ChristineES]

I'm done repeating myself by the way. Please carry on without me.

I've already quit. I explained how I perceive the story- as you did. They have rejected it and keep asking the same questions again. They had legitimate questions, but I am starting to get dizzy from answering and re answering.

 

[waitasec]

It'd save so much time if each person stated their motives, honestly. Some of you are only here to conjure up your own little theories of Bible stories, pass them off as accurate - likely knowing very well that they are extremely biased and lazy assumptions - then belittle the stories themselves after that manufactured ignorance. Why is it you people have nothing better to do?

do you really think we are making up those questions, that we are willingly not wanting to understand and that our interpretation, opinions or our POV's are
somehow beneath yours?

 

[Sleeppy]

do you really think we are making up those questions, that we are willingly not wanting to understand and that our interpretation, opinions or our POV's are
somehow beneath yours?

I know so. None of you actually put very much thought into understanding any of it because you're so set on trying to prove it wrong. It's like seeing a math formula you've never seen before and already forming an argument that it's wrong, before you even know what it is, or what it's there for. How many of you have even read anything before this point in Genesis? How many of you have even compared translations? Or tried to identify patterns, like theme, etc? Be honest.. If you actually had any interest in answering a question you'd come across, you'd likely at least do a little research on your own, or ask someone you weren't so eager to belittle.

 

[waitasec]

I know so. None of you actually put very much thought into understanding any of it because you're so set on trying to prove it wrong. It's like seeing a math formula you've never seen before and already forming an argument that it's wrong, before you even know what it is, or what it's there for. How many of you have even read anything before this point in Genesis? How many of you have even compared translations? Or tried to identify patterns, like theme, etc? Be honest.. If you actually had any interest in answering a question you'd come across, you'd likely at least do a little research on your own, or ask someone you weren't so eager to belittle.

well speaking for myself i'm not trying to prove it wrong...
i'm presenting an opportunity for someone to prove it right by asking questions.

sorry if that bothers you so much.

it's almost like you think there are questions that are not worth asking as it
causes some sort of discomfort for being placed in a position to answer something you have absolutely no idea about. at least i'm the one honest enough to say...i don't get it....

 

[ChristineES]

well speaking for myself i'm not trying to prove it wrong...
i'm presenting an opportunity for someone to prove it right by asking questions.

sorry if that bothers you so much.

it's almost like you think there are questions that are not worth asking as it
causes some sort of discomfort for being placed in a position to answer something you have absolutely no idea about. at least i'm the one honest enough to say...i don't get it....

I think you could at least acknowledge that we see it in a different way than you do. If you don't accept it, I can't fault you for doing that, but you could at least say "I understand that you see it differently".
And I know why you don't accept the story and I can accept that you don't see it the way I do.

 

[waitasec]

I think you could at least acknowledge that we see it in a different way than you do. If you don't accept it, I can't fault you for doing that, but you could at least say "I understand that you see it differently".
And I know why you don't accept the story and I can accept that you don't see it the way I do.

well how i see it is...
if i claim to be something i should be able to back why it is i am that thing.

for instance, if i claim to be a songwriter...why would i be offended if someone asked me a question regarding songwriting...? that is what i do, it is a part of who i am and therefore ask away....no problem.

 

[ChristineES]

well how i see it is...
if i claim to be something i should be able to back why it is i am that thing.

for instance, if i claim to be a songwriter...why would i be offended if someone asked me a question regarding songwriting...? that is what i do, it is a part of who i am and therefore ask away....no problem.

Where did I say I was offended?

A songwriter would not be able to tell me how he or she writes songs in a way I understand it. This is because I am not a songwriter. That's just the way it is.

Anyway, I explained all I can in this debate so I am done with it.

 

[waitasec]

Where did I say I was offended?

sorry...i was referring to sleepy...not you.

A songwriter would not be able to tell me how he or she writes songs in a way I understand it. This is because I am not a songwriter. That's just the way it is.

however, if there is interest there is the potential to learn...right?

 

[Sleeppy]

well speaking for myself i'm not trying to prove it wrong...
i'm presenting an opportunity for someone to prove it right by asking questions.

sorry if that bothers you so much.

it's almost like you think there are questions that are not worth asking as it
causes some sort of discomfort for being placed in a position to answer something you have absolutely no idea about. at least i'm the one honest enough to say...i don't get it....

That's good you admit that. And I understand how you may think that I am dishonest or discomforted by questioning. But, if you may or may not recall, in the past, you asked me quite a few questions that I had no discomfort whatsoever in answering according to my understanding. I welcome questions. I ask myself questions all the time, which is why I seem to always have an answer or theory. I've already examined a lot of these questions before others have asked them of me. I'm bothered at the lack of effort. We all have the same texts.. So it makes me very suspicious when people ask questions they haven't personally done very much if any research on. That's like going to the pool, knowing you can't swim, with someone you're not sure can swim either, and expecting them to teach you.

 

[Me Myself]

Stop boasting already and educate us with your understanding Sleepy!

Seriously

Tell us all the things we are missing from the translations and the etceteras that are relevant and stuf

 

[waitasec]

That's good you admit that. And I understand how you may think that I am dishonest or discomforted by questioning. But, if you may or may not recall, in the past, you asked me quite a few questions that I had no discomfort whatsoever in answering according to my understanding. I welcome questions. I ask myself questions all the time, which is why I seem to always have an answer. I've already examined a lot of these questions before others have asked them of me. I'm bothered at the lack of effort. We all have the same texts.. So it makes me very suspicious when people ask questions they haven't personally done very much if any research on. That's like going to the pool, knowing you can't swim, with someone you're not sure can swim either, and expecting them to teach you.

funny, that is what i think about when i consider religious faith, or more specifically blind faith.
i'm bothered by the lack of effort, we all are subjected to the same circumstances. so it makes me very suspicious when people dodge questions as it shows they haven't researched enough or refuse to say they don't know...but act as if they answered the question by going in a big circle.

 

[Sleeppy]

Stop boasting already and educate us with your understanding Sleepy!

Seriously

Tell us all the things we are missing from the translations and the etceteras that are relevant and stuf

You're missing a lot if you haven't read very much of it, in the first place. I don't go to someone I don't trust for a lesson. If you want to be educated, educate yourself or go to someone you trust.