For Parents: If God Told You To...

[Kathryn]

wait, does god speak to you or not?
i'm not talking about the bible.

God gives me wisdom in His timing. He leads me to that wisdom in a variety of ways. I cannot say with certainty that I have ever heard God speak to me. I have heard a definite phrase resonate in my heart at a particularly desperate time in my life, and that phrase was, "I know your heart." This was very comforting to me. I do not know if it was God speaking to me, but I believe the sense of comfort was from God - the Holy Spirit, the Comforter.

That's just my own personal experience. But I'm repeating myself. I've already told you this once.

 

[Kathryn]

Why oh why would an omnipotent god need to test any of his creations if he knows before he created anything what is in their "hearts"?

You'll have to ask Him that.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

Bobby,
i think what we can conclude here is...

any person who is of sound mind, theist or non theist, determine what is right or wrong by using their moral compass, not by some arbitrary ideas of what it is to be moral.


i'm off to yosemite now...

see you in a few days

Have fun!!!

 

[Nooj]

i'm off to yosemite now...

see you in a few days

have fun! one day i will go there. the climber's paradise.

 

[Kathryn]

So would you kill your child if god told you too, not a voice in your head, but god actually coming to you, as he apparently did to Abe on many occasions? Would you kill your child on the absolute direct orders of the god you believe in. No equivocations, just a yes or no?

Oh, come on. If the Almighty and Omnipotent Creator of the Universe came to any of us and commanded us to do something, none of us really knows what we would do. You don't know any more than I do what your reaction would be.

It's an impossible question to answer. Let's think about it for a minute though. If God came to YOU, for starters you'd probably be so shocked and dismayed and freaked out that there's no telling what you would do. We may like to think that we'd stand tall and look Him in the eye and tell Him exactly what we think and what we will and won't do, but I suspect that none of us would have quite that much gumption.

 

[Nooj]

Actual LOVE. Not the pretend stuff in holy books?

if abraham did not love his son isaac, then he would not be called the father of faith. abraham was resolved to kill isaac and loved him at the same time.

god called for abraham's best sacrifice, his choiciest flesh, his most beloved possession in the whole world. 'take your son, whom you love, isaac...'

 

[Koldo]

Good questions, and thanks for your tone of discussion, by the way.

I would hope that I would have the faith of Abraham - which is exemplary in any circumstance, but ESPECIALLY considering the times in which he lived, and the strangeness of his experiences with God's communication to him, and his life events.

I don't know that I would have had the faith - or the responses - that Abraham had.

Thanks for the answer.

 

[helpmeplease]

Oh, come on. If the Almighty and Omnipotent Creator of the Universe came to any of us and commanded us to do something, none of us really knows what we would do. You don't know any more than I do what your reaction would be.

It's an impossible question to answer. Let's think about it for a minute though. If God came to YOU, for starters you'd probably be so shocked and dismayed and freaked out that there's no telling what you would do. We may like to think that we'd stand tall and look Him in the eye and tell Him exactly what we think and what we will and won't do, but I suspect that none of us would have quite that much gumption.

That is simply not true for me, it may be for you but I wouldn't kill my child. That is my position, you obviously have a different position.

 

[Nakosis]

The point is that Abraham didn't really know what was going to happen until the very last moment.

No reason IMO to think so. I'd think he'd have gone through with it. That's the person that he was. Apparently the type of person God needed at the time. Otherwise the story would have been one of refusal.

Isn't the nature of God regarded as unchanging by christians though?
Which means if he has done it once, he might as well to do it twice just to test someone's faith.

Again it's not to test faith. It is to setup an event to let future generations know the faith the God requires. It's done, recorded, part of humanity's religious history.

But ok say it happens again. Obviously not with me or you. We'd both refuse. So God finds someone willing to sacrifice their child to God. They intend to carryout the event. God again turns their hand and they report this event.

Now what? Are you going to believe their claim. Is it going to change anything for you? Maybe they'll go on to found a new tribe of chosen people.

I always kind of thought that if there was any reality to the story that Abraham at the last moment said screw this. This is stupid to sacrifice my son for God. That's what really turned his hand at the last minute. However that's not how it got reported.

 

[Nakosis]

Oh, come on. If the Almighty and Omnipotent Creator of the Universe came to any of us and commanded us to do something, none of us really knows what we would do. You don't know any more than I do what your reaction would be.

It's an impossible question to answer. Let's think about it for a minute though. If God came to YOU, for starters you'd probably be so shocked and dismayed and freaked out that there's no telling what you would do. We may like to think that we'd stand tall and look Him in the eye and tell Him exactly what we think and what we will and won't do, but I suspect that none of us would have quite that much gumption.

I know what I wouldn't do.
Not to pass judgement, however my own personal sense of morality wouldn't allow it. Not saying this makes me a better person, it's just who I am.

 

[Kathryn]

That is simply not true for me, it may be for you but I wouldn't kill my child. That is my position, you obviously have a different position.

My position is that if God stood before me, I really have no idea what my reaction would be to ANYTHING He commanded me. I kinda figure I'd be flat on my face but really, who knows? Who COULD know?

Maybe we'll all find out one day.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

Excellent point, but please note that many commenting on this thread are absolutely oblivious to a concept called "historical context."

I find it extremely unfair to try and justify this by using “historical context” as an out…lets take a look and some recent religious horrors:
July 29th 2002 15 year old Manju Kumari was sacrifice to ‘Mother’ Kali
In 2003 a high priest Chandrabhan Singh Lodhi sacrificed Alam Ahrirwar to appease a goddess
Again in 2003 a mother kills her toddler because a priest told her that if she sacrificed him her husband would overcome alcoholism.
And even more recent news a family in Mexico is being investigated for sacrificing 2 10 year old boys and a 55 year old woman to Santa Muerte aka Saint Death…Sadly the worship and following of Saint Death is growing across Mexico and in the USA.
Shall I continue??

 

[helpmeplease]

My position is that if God stood before me, I really have no idea what my reaction would be to ANYTHING He commanded me. I kinda figure I'd be flat on my face but really, who knows? Who COULD know?

Maybe we'll all find out one day.

And my position is that even god asked me to kill my child I would refuse. You would equivocate.

 

[Kathryn]

I find it extremely unfair to try and justify this by using “historical context” as an out…lets take a look and some recent religious horrors:
July 29th 2002 15 year old Manju Kumari was sacrifice to ‘Mother’ Kali
In 2003 a high priest Chandrabhan Singh Lodhi sacrificed Alam Ahrirwar to appease a goddess
Again in 2003 a mother kills her toddler because a priest told her that if she sacrificed him her husband would overcome alcoholism.
And even more recent news a family in Mexico is being investigated for sacrificing 2 10 year old boys and a 55 year old woman to Santa Muerte aka Saint Death…Sadly the worship and following of Saint Death is growing across Mexico and in the USA.
Shall I continue??

You know why these events make the news? Because they are unusual and shocking.

 

[Kathryn]

And my position is that even god asked me to kill my child I would refuse. You would equivocate.

My position is that I doubt that either of us really knows what we would do in that unique (and highly unlikely) scenario.

 

[helpmeplease]

My position is that I doubt that either of us really knows what we would do in that unique (and highly unlikely) scenario.

And that is because you can't bring yourself to defying your god.

 

[Kathryn]

And that is because you can't bring yourself to defying your god.

My God would not command and then allow me to do anything that was against His perfect will. Just as He did not command and then allow Abraham to sacrifice Isaac.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

You know why these events make the news? Because they are unusual and shocking.

I am trying to figure out how that negates the FACT THAT THEY STILL HAPPEN..historical context has nothing to do with it.

 

[Kathryn]

I am trying to figure out how that negates the FACT THAT THEY STILL HAPPEN..historical context has nothing to do with it.

I never said that human sacrifice doesn't still happen. Of course it does. But it is not a COMMON PRACTICE as it was in the time of Abraham.

Sheeze.

 

[Nakosis]

I am trying to figure out how that negates the FACT THAT THEY STILL HAPPEN..historical context has nothing to do with it.

Because people are influenced by non-Christian beliefs.