For those who believe that only Christians go to heaven...

[Heneni]

I'm sure they're just as special as you darlin...just as special.

I figured you for a person batting for the wrong team, and I still do, but i never though you were childish. I guess i was wrong.

I'll go jump on daddies lapt now. You have piled up for yourself judgment here...by your angry, bitter, and double talking words. I forgive you. Now all that remains for me...is a thumbs up from my god, and all that remains for you..is justice.

heneni

 

[HoldemDB9]

Absolutely, yes, to your wording of the question.
You like the straight answers without elaboration, don't you !!!!
Could you define, "chance" and "equal"

According to God's word, he does not operate on "chance" and God reaches into peoples lives quite differently, but when it's all said and done,everyone will have been given opportunity to choose to believe in the Judeo Christian God according to their particular,situation, culture,race,enviroment, gender,religion and may it be said that none will have an excuse.

It would be ludicrous to assume God would not provide a means for people to acknowledge him.
The way he does that when we look to those people who are eating out of dumps in 3rd world countries and have never heard mention of God ,bible etc, may certainly be beyond our ability to comprehend, but he does it nevertheless and does not need our finite minds to be able to understand how he touches the heart of people everywhere.
if I never experienced first hand, the miracles and testimonies of how God touches people in 3rd world countries, I would be on the fense as well.
So I understand how you and others can't put your head around this concept regarding God,becasue you are looking at it purely from a natural viewpoint.

If we could chart all the knowledge of everything in the world in a circle and identify our personal knowledge as a dot,I think it might represent,and I'm being gracious here to humans, 1/1000000000000000 of that knowledge ,does that make room for the possibility for God to, not only exist, but touch who he wants however he wants dispite those people actually having to verifiablly alert every other person around them of God speaking to their heart.

The problem with man is they are so inundated with stuff, through their natural senses and personal experinces,indulges,carnal appitites and practices that they can no longer distinguish the voice of God speaking to their hearts and to be perfectly frank ,they could care less for his touch over the sensual pleasures and stimulations the worldly indulgences give them.

Ok roli I understand you now, but I don't understand why you would even be on a forum discussing religion. So you believe that we all have an equal chance to become Christian but you have absolutely no idea how this works, is that what you are saying? 80% of the Indian population are Hindu and ~70% of the American population is Christian, and you say that they all had an EQUAL chance to become a Christian? You have absolutely nothing behind this belief and the percentages are against you. Why are you even here? Whenever someone clearly proves you wrong or beats you in a debate, you just turn around and say "your wrong, I'm right, but we BOTH will never be able to understand how I am right".

I believe that not all get an equal chance to become Christian, my reason is because 80% of people in India are Hindu, 95%+ of people in Saudi Arabia are Muslim and 70% of the people in the USA are Christian, I don't believe this is a coincidence. If everyone by the end of their lifetime had an equal chance to become a Christian then the percentages would not be like this. This thread was assuming that not all got an equal chance and why this is/how is it fair. It was not about actually discussing whether or not all did get an equal chance to become Christian. I honestly did not even think that even you would disagree with this. Oh well there is nothing else I can say, like I said the numbers speak for themselves, there is no way that a child born into a strict Christian family has the same chance as a child born into a strict Muslim family.

 

[Katzpur]

Ok roli I understand you now, but I don't understand why you would even be on a forum discussing religion. So you believe that we all have an equal chance to become Christian but you have absolutely no idea how this works, is that what you are saying? 80% of the Indian population are Hindu and ~70% of the American population is Christian, and you say that they all had an EQUAL chance to become a Christian? You have absolutely nothing behind this belief and the percentages are against you. Why are you even here? Whenever someone clearly proves you wrong or beats you in a debate, you just turn around and say "your wrong, I'm right, but we BOTH will never be able to understand how I am right".

I believe that not all get an equal chance to become Christian, my reason is because 80% of people in India are Hindu, 95%+ of people in Saudi Arabia are Muslim and 70% of the people in the USA are Christian, I don't believe this is a coincidence. If everyone by the end of their lifetime had an equal chance to become a Christian then the percentages would not be like this. This thread was assuming that not all got an equal chance and why this is/how is it fair. It was not about actually discussing whether or not all did get an equal chance to become Christian. I honestly did not even think that even you would disagree with this. Oh well there is nothing else I can say, like I said the numbers speak for themselves, there is no way that a child born into a strict Christian family has the same chance as a child born into a strict Muslim family.

I think what roli is saying is that there will undoubtedly be some people in India and Saudi Arabia who, by the end of their lives, will convert to Christianity. That fact alone means it's possible. If it's possible for a few to do so, that means it's equally possible for all to do so. Those who don't are the ones God doesn't really want back in the first place. If He'd wanted them back, they would have been born in the U.S. or the U.K. to Christian families. You see, all of this was decided a long, long time ago. God needed to populate the entire world, so He put most of His least favorite children in places like India and Saudi Arabia and His favorites in the U.S. and the U.K. How you ever ended up being born in the U.K. is another one of those mysteries we will never understand, since you were supposed to be born in India.

 

[Father Heathen]

I figured you for a person batting for the wrong team

And in Heneni's little world there are two teams: those who agree with her exactly to the letter, and everyone else who all hate and conspire against God together.

Must be pretty lonely in Heneni's corner.

 

[HoldemDB9]

I think what roli is saying is that there will undoubtedly be some people in India and Saudi Arabia who, by the end of their lives, will convert to Christianity. That fact alone means it's possible. If it's possible for a few to do so, that means it's equally possible for all to do so.

Just because it is possible, does not make it equal.

Those who don't are the ones God doesn't really want back in the first place. If He'd wanted them back, they would have been born in the U.S. or the U.K. to Christian families. You see, all of this was decided a long, long time ago. God needed to populate the entire world, so He put most of His least favorite children in places like India and Saudi Arabia and His favorites in the U.S. and the U.K. How you ever ended up being born in the U.K. is another one of those mysteries we will never understand, since you were supposed to be born in India.

So you agree that not all get an equal chance to become Christian, but you just don't know why this is?

 

[Katzpur]

Just because it is possible, does not make it equal.

So you agree that not all get an equal chance to become Christian, but you just don't know why this is?

I kind of thought you knew me well enough by now, Holdem, to recognize sarcasm when you saw it. My comments were 100% sarcastic.

 

[Draka]

I figured you for a person batting for the wrong team, and I still do, but i never though you were childish. I guess i was wrong.

I'll go jump on daddies lapt now. You have piled up for yourself judgment here...by your angry, bitter, and double talking words. I forgive you. Now all that remains for me...is a thumbs up from my god, and all that remains for you..is justice.

heneni

:areyoucra
Why don't you remove that plank first before you go talking about my speck? I honestly don't know how you even see with that atrocity protruding from your eye.

You have repeatedly lied throughout this thread, dodged questions, showed pride and arrogance, and when I point these things out then suddenly I am the sinner in need of justice. I'm not angry or bitter, I'm disappointed in you, and I'm about as straight a talker as one finds on this forum. I calls'em like I see'em hun...and that doesn't stop simply because you don't like having the mirror put up in front of you. You have run around throwing out absurd responses when faced with a point or charge you simply can't seem to answer. If you don't like my last response to you, if you think it childish, then perhaps you shouldn't say things that require me to sink to your level of communicating.

 

[HoldemDB9]

I kind of thought you knew me well enough by now, Holdem, to recognize sarcasm when you saw it. My comments were 100% sarcastic.

LOL, my bad. I should have known that you were being sarcastic, but I didn't pay enough attention. I just glanced at your title which obviously says Christian and automatically assumed that you were being serious because MANY Christians would actually agree with what you said even though you were being sarcastic.

 

[Katzpur]

LOL, my bad. I should have known that you were being sarcastic, but I didn't pay enough attention. I just glanced at your title which obviously says Christian and automatically assumed that you were being serious because MANY Christians would actually agree with what you said even though you were being sarcastic.

Yeah, but I'm a Mormon. As many Christians will tell you, we're not the real thing, just wannabees.

 

[roli]

Ok roli I understand you now, but I don't understand why you would even be on a forum discussing religion.

First of all you don't understand anything about me or Christianity,not that you never will ,but at present, your fulfillment of scripture.

So you believe that we all have an equal chance to become Christian but you have absolutely no idea how this works,

I'm being really patient with your reverse psychology techniques and attempts to twist people's words to suit your twisted perception of what is being said.
But on the same note, it's quite entertaining to watch.
How God chooses to speak,touch,reveal himself to people is his business

is that what you are saying?

You never seem acknowledge any threads which are responses to yours, so I don't think you really care what anyone is saying.

80% of the Indian population are Hindu and ~70% of the American population is Christian, and you say that they all had an EQUAL chance to become a Christian? You have absolutely nothing behind this belief and the percentages are against you. Why are you even here? Whenever someone clearly proves you wrong or beats you in a debate, you just turn around and say "your wrong, I'm right, but we BOTH will never be able to understand how I am right".

Your always right in your own mind and my God will move as he see's fit, regardless of your ability to comprehend it.
Revival is happening all over the world with Hindu's ,muslims, Budists geeting saved and you can do nothing about it,..... but read about it,but you choose to blow wind rather then confirm it with research.

I believe that not all get an equal chance to become Christian, my reason is because 80% of people in India are Hindu, 95%+ of people in Saudi Arabia are Muslim and 70% of the people in the USA are Christian, I don't believe this is a coincidence.

Be patient, God's working on his schedule,not yours, He will do it when his time is right and blow all logical presumptions out of the water

If everyone by the end of their lifetime had an equal chance to become a Christian then the percentages would not be like this.

When you stand before God after you close your eyes in this life,you will weep at his feet over regret of how you allowed your logic to interfere with the truth that was spoken to you.

This thread was assuming that not all got an equal chance and why this is/how is it fair. It was not about actually discussing whether or not all did get an equal chance to become Christian.

Why did you ask me the question in the beginning.
Your starting to step on your own tongue.

I honestly did not even think that even you would disagree with this. Oh well there is nothing else I can say, like I said the numbers speak for themselves, there is no way that a child born into a strict Christian family has the same chance as a child born into a strict Muslim family.

The numbers are not in when you say so,but when God calls all things to an end.

 

[roli]

Yeah, but I'm a Mormon. As many Christians will tell you, we're not the real thing, just wannabees.

Let';s just agree that the God you believe in and his doctrine is quite different then the Judeo Christian doctrine. Can they both be true or are one of us deceived.
If you can admit that then were getting places, if you

 

[Katzpur]

Let';s just agree that the God you believe in and his doctrine is quite different then the Judeo Christian doctrine.

Sorry, roli. No can do.

Can they both be true or are one of us deceived.

One of us is deceived.

 

[Draka]

Wow, considering all the times Roli mentions that logic does not work when dealing with god then his god must be an illogical god. If it is an illogical god then it would not be logical to follow or believe in that god now would it? Why would someone actually want to believe in something that they, admittedly, know makes no sense? :areyoucra

This "god works in mysterious ways" line of BS is just a fancy way of saying "I really don't know or have an answer to whatever it is that you are asking about but I'm sure as hell not going to question my belief just because you make an excellent point".

 

[Father Heathen]

Wow, considering all the times Roli mentions that logic does not work when dealing with god then his god must be an illogical god. If it is an illogical god then it would not be logical to follow or believe in that god now would it? Why would someone actually want to believe in something that they, admittedly, know makes no sense? :areyoucra

This "god works in mysterious ways" line of BS is just a fancy way of saying "I really don't know or have an answer to whatever it is that you are asking about but I'm sure as hell not going to question my belief just because you make an excellent point".

Exactly. Why would God give us the gift of a brain capable of critical thought, empirical observation, and rational deduction.....only to punish us in the end for using it?

 

[roli]

Sorry, roli. No can do.
One of us is deceived.

So are you saying we both believe in the same God???

...that we are!!!

 

[Heneni]

Why don't you remove that plank first before you go talking about my speck? I honestly don't know how you even see with that atrocity protruding from your eye.

OK. And you have judged yourself to have only a speck? Pride? Arrogance?

You have repeatedly lied throughout this thread, dodged questions, showed pride and arrogance, and when I point these things out then suddenly I am the sinner in need of justice.

Now follow your own advice. We are all sinners. But my spirit cannot sin. Though my body can. If god wont spare my body but has condemned it, and needs to give me a new body, what will happen to yours?

You show that you know about the bible and what it means, and therefore is now without any excuse. :yes:By your OWN words you have been judged. Now the question is...if you have judged me incorrectly, the only thing that is STILL left for you is justice. I am well aware of the fact that im not to judge as a hypocrite. And i have judged you correctly. You have to work at that speck a little harder!

Heneni

 

[roli]

Wow, considering all the times Roli mentions that logic does not work when dealing with god then his god must be an illogical god. If it is an illogical god then it would not be logical to follow or believe in that god now would it? Why would someone actually want to believe in something that they, admittedly, know makes no sense? :areyoucra

This "god works in mysterious ways" line of BS is just a fancy way of saying "I really don't know or have an answer to whatever it is that you are asking about but I'm sure as hell not going to question my belief just because you make an excellent point".

So I actually said "logic is useless and not required where God is concerned" and I admitted "God makes no sense".
Let me sum it up for you all, those who trust in ,adhere to,rely on and have confidence in man's intellect and reasoning abilities to prove God, as if the human mind was a god to be deified itself, and then use this means to refute and disprove God...it's futile from inception in it's attempts to find God or not.

God made foolish the wisdom of this world 1 Cor 1, does that mean wisdom is foolish. No it means he puts to shame the wise self sufficent and arrogant.
Makes their wisdom seem like foolishness.

..wow !!!......you people are somethingelse,take it and run with it,whatever turns your motor.
Some willl do whatever they need to support there position.

Proof of God's mysterious ways is that your still breathing dispite your disbelief in the God who gives it to you.
The day will come ,hopefully for you before you step from this life that you will question what it was you believed in.
Something typically happens in a persons life that is usually pivotal and brings them out from their rational and typical way of appraoching life to where you inherently look to and call on the God you once blasphemed and mocked.
Much like a child calling out for his daddy after he falls to the ground
That's the faith and dependency and desperation it's going to take, but for many, it will be extremely difficult to humble oneself and more so to forsake all that logic and reason ever said and cry out to a God you can't see,touch or feel.
It's quite natural to do,but it's the mind that hinders most from doing so, the god of ego is a big god and not easily defeated

I doubt you will agree,but in time you will see.

 

[McBell]

Why do so many theists assume that "disagreement with" equates to "not understanding"?

Do they honestly think that the only reason someone would disagree with the portrait they paint of the Biblical deity is because the one disagreeing doesn't understand?

It truly baffles the mind.
Especially when they get all high and mighty over it.

 

[Father Heathen]

OK. And you have judged yourself to have only a speck? Pride? Arrogance?




Now follow your own advice. We are all sinners. But my spirit cannot sin. Though my body can. If god wont spare my body but has condemned it, and needs to give me a new body, what will happen to yours?

You show that you know about the bible and what it means, and therefore is now without any excuse. :yes:By your OWN words you have been judged. Now the question is...if you have judged me incorrectly, the only thing that is STILL left for you is justice. I am well aware of the fact that im not to judge as a hypocrite. And i have judged you correctly. You have to work at that speck a little harder!

Heneni

Honestly, I have to say that Draka has displayed a lot more integrity, dignity, decency, honor and honesty here than you have.

 

[Heneni]

Do they honestly think that the only reason someone would disagree with the portrait they paint of the Biblical deity is because the one disagreeing doesn't understand?

Spiritual matters are spiritually descerned. If you have the wrong spirit, you wont see the chicken from the egg.
And here is the proof....

It truly baffles the mind.

Especially when they get all high and mighty over it

Dont mock what you dont understand!

Do you not know Mestemia, that gods plan for his creation is on track? Do you not understand that you are not able to will youself into heaven, out of hell or anywhere else, unless you have the power to execute that descision. God decided to save his people. His people trusted and had faith in Him to save them. And such hope never dissapoints and never will. They dont have the power to save themselves. It is done by the power of God. And that same power is what continually regenerates us. We live by the power of god, we die by the power of god, we are resurrected by the power of god. It would be presumptious to think that any of us has more power than god. If you dont have reverance for the king of the universe...where do you suppose he should send you by his power? And would you have the power to withstand his descision?

I know that it is futile to fight against god. If you dishonour the king, you have condemned yourself. Why, oh why would any rational man do such a thing?

If you say....god is a fool, god is a monster, god is a murderer, what should he do? This is what he will do...he will be to you what you think of him. If you think he is a fool, he will act reckless with your life. If you think he is a monster, he will prove to be a monster to you. If you think he is a murderer, you will appreciate and understand when he destroys you.

Mans wisdom is foolishness to god. For some god is their saviour, and for them, he saves them. For others god is a fool, and he will take their wisdom and apply it to themselves, since they believe they are smarter than god.

God is not still little jesus in a manger. Sweet jesus, who loves everybody and does not want to see anybody perish. He is sweet, and he is loving and he does not desire that anybody perish, but he is also GOD the judge, and a God of wrath.The next time he comes to earth, it is not in a manger and he wont spend his last days on a cross.

He comes to people meek and mild, if you respect him. He comes to you with wrath if you hate. Not because he is angry at someone for not liking him, but because of their hate, they have hurt his children and have hurt his creation. He will bring justice to all who need it. Love is not blind. It sees clearly everything the way it really is. God is faithfull to his own. He has now no more 'obligation' to those who dont. He forgave the whole world their offenses. Wiped the slate clean. There was no reason to be angry at god, yet people are. There is now no more jesus to sacrifice. It is done and finished, and all that is left for mankind is to reap what they themselves sowed.

Heneni