For those who believe that only Christians go to heaven...

[McBell]

Honestly, I have to say that Draka has displayed a lot more integrity, dignity, decency, honor and honesty here than you have.

Most definitely.

 

[HoldemDB9]

First of all you don't understand anything about me or Christianity,not that you never will ,but at present, your fulfillment of scripture.

Yes I do understand. I explained it in post 124.

I'm being really patient with your reverse psychology techniques and attempts to twist people's words to suit your twisted perception of what is being said.
But on the same note, it's quite entertaining to watch.
How God chooses to speak,touch,reveal himself to people is his business

So what I said was true then. You beleive that God gives all an equal chance to become Christian but you yourself have no idea how this works. "reverse psychology techniques" wow you really are funny. So basically your saying "the evidence is against me, but I beleive I'm right, but I don't know how I'm right, I just am."

Your always right in your own mind and my God will move as he see's fit, regardless of your ability to comprehend it.
Revival is happening all over the world with Hindu's ,muslims, Budists geeting saved and you can do nothing about it,..... but read about it,but you choose to blow wind rather then confirm it with research.

I have researched and I am looking at the whole picture, not just part of it. The fact is that 80% of people in India are Hindu, that is the whole picture. Not "but there are still millions of Christians in India".

Be patient, God's working on his schedule,not yours, He will do it when his time is right and blow all logical presumptions out of the water

Again just saying "the evidence is against me, I have nothing to say, but I am right, I just have no idea how".

When you stand before God after you close your eyes in this life,you will weep at his feet over regret of how you allowed your logic to interfere with the truth that was spoken to you.

Why don't you actually address the comment? Scared of how stupid you will look or something? This is what I said: If everyone by the end of their lifetime had an equal chance to become a Christian then the percentages would not be like this. What do you think about this?

The numbers are not in when you say so,but when God calls all things to an end.

Surprise surprise, yet again nothing to actually back up your claims or your side of the argument. Just "The evidence is against me, I have nothing to say, but I am right and you are wrong, its just that both of us cannot understand how I am right".

 

[McBell]

Spiritual matters are spiritually descerned. If you have the wrong spirit, you wont see the chicken from the egg.
And here is the proof....

Dont mock what you dont understand!

Do you not know Mestemia, that gods plan for his creation is on track? Do you not understand that you are not able to will youself into heaven, out of hell or anywhere else, unless you have the power to execute that descision. God decided to save his people. His people trusted and had faith in Him to save them. And such hope never dissapoints and never will. They dont have the power to save themselves. It is done by the power of God. And that same power is what continually regenerates us. We live by the power of god, we die by the power of god, we are resurrected by the power of god. It would be presumptious to think that any of us has more power than god. If you dont have reverance for the king of the universe...where do you suppose he should send you by his power? And would you have the power to withstand his descision?

I know that it is futile to fight against god. If you dishonour the king, you have condemned yourself. Why, oh why would any rational man do such a thing?

If you say....god is a fool, god is a monster, god is a murderer, what should he do? This is what he will do...he will be to you what you think of him. If you think he is a fool, he will act reckless with your life. If you think he is a monster, he will prove to be a monster to you. If you think he is a murderer, you will appreciate and understand when he destroys you.

Mans wisdom is foolishness to god. For some god is their saviour, and for them, he saves them. For others god is a fool, and he will take their wisdom and apply it to themselves, since they believe they are smarter than god.

God is not still little jesus in a manger. Sweet jesus, who loves everybody and does not want to see anybody perish. He is sweet, and he is loving and he does not desire that anybody perish, but he is also GOD the judge, and a God of wrath.The next time he comes to earth, it is not in a manger and he wont spend his last days on a cross.

He comes to people meek and mild, if you respect him. He comes to you with wrath if you hate. Not because he is angry at someone for not liking him, but because of their hate, they have hurt his children and have hurt his creation. He will bring justice to all who need it. Love is not blind. It sees clearly everything the way it really is. God is faithfull to his own. He has now no more 'obligation' to those who dont. He forgave the whole world their offenses. Wiped the slate clean. There was no reason to be angry at god, yet people are. There is now no more jesus to sacrifice. It is done and finished, and all that is left for mankind is to reap what they themselves sowed.

Heneni

Still waiting for you to come up with something new.

 

[Father Heathen]

Sigh, again I say:

People aren't offended by the idea of god, but rather by the grotesque cartoon caricature that you portray as god.

You don't have a monopoly on the idea of god.

 

[Heneni]

If i was after the approval of men, i would be an enemy of god. I have made my choice. It is better to please god than it is to please itching human ears.

The world is not my judge. But my god is the judge of mankind. If i was the daughter of a rich man with lots of power and wisdom, and your life was in his hands, would you treat me with contempt or would you be kind to me. Yet you have failed to realise that you are fighting against the very daughter of a king that is your judge. If i was in the world, and you could gain some advantage by befriending me for you own good, you would do it, but because you cant see the chicken from the egg, you have trampled on me.

Still...my gripe is not with mankind, gripes load you down. I have no desire to play their games or to come together with them at their 'love' feasts. If you had eyes to see and ears that hear, you would have gained favour from me in my kingdom, but now you an enemy of the kingdom. And at the end of the age, you have no hope.

This is what my king said....if ANYBODY welcomes one of his children because they are one of his children, they would never loose their reward. But you have not welcomed me and now you have no reward.

My god is more real to me, than anybody I know. His words carry more weight than anybody elses. And if I was to deny my identity i would spit in the face of my god, who moved heaven and earth to save me.

Heneni

 

[Father Heathen]

If i was the daughter of a rich man with lots of power and wisdom, and your life was in his hands, would you treat me with contempt or would you be kind to me.

You can't extort love and respect out of people.

 

[McBell]

When you can actually have a discussion with me like you do in your sanctuary threads, perhaps we might be able to make some headway.
Until then, I am just gonna ignore you.

Feel free to claim victory, shallow as it is.

 

[McBell]

You can't extort love and respect out of people.

you can if you claim you are doing it for God.

 

[Father Heathen]

you can if you claim you are doing it for God.

What I mean is that you cannot earn peoples' genuine, sincere respect and love through threats and intimidation. Sure, they can feign to in attempt to appease you, but I'm sure god would see through that, anyway. Heneni is protraying it like it's some sick sub/dom power play.

 

[Heneni]

Love and respect from man is shallow and fleeting. Today you will love me tomorrow you will hate me. Today you will eat bread with me, tomorrow you will lift you heel up against me. And so it is with the world. They cannot love that which does not soothe their ego. And so they love themselves more than they love god.

In the end...it matters not to me whether you accept me. You never would have and if you did, i would have to be 'careful' and watch my back. The nature of mankind is animalistic. They will turn on children of god, like dogs turn around and bite you. Satan walks around in you seeking whom he can devour.

Now what shall i do with the rest of my pearls?

Mestemia and Father Heathen do seem to follow me around on this forum. You are bent on proving your guilt. Do you not know, that someone greater and bigger than you are taking note of your heart and intentions. Are you so shallow as to be fleeting and reckless with you own lives?

All i desire is that you get what you deserve. You did not deserve, neither did i to be forgiven by god. That was mercy. I have made the most of that forgiveness and have not treated it with contempt. He who has been forgiven much loves much. Your lack of love towards me, shows there are many things for which you have not been forgiven since the cross, and your cup of wrath has filled up and is ready to overflow. That is justice, judgement and wrath.

I forgive you for anything you might say now, tomorrow and the day after that against me. Because my god did the same for me. But your unbelief cannot be forgiven. There will be no strangers in heaven.

heneni

 

[Draka]

OK. And you have judged yourself to have only a speck? Pride? Arrogance?

And yet again you ignore the point made. Why is that a surprise?...oh wait...it's not.

Now follow your own advice. We are all sinners. But my spirit cannot sin. Though my body can. If god wont spare my body but has condemned it, and needs to give me a new body, what will happen to yours?

My current body will die and will be cremated as per my wishes. It is but a physical vessel for my spirit. My spirit will go on as it cannot be killed and has no end until it reunites with the Source. I will be reincarnated into my next lifetime and so on until I have acheived the wisdom of spirit to reunite. Something tells me though, that you have many more lifetimes to go to learn the lessons you must as, judging by this one, you are behind me by quite a few "classes".

You show that you know about the bible and what it means, and therefore is now without any excuse. :yes:By your OWN words you have been judged. Now the question is...if you have judged me incorrectly, the only thing that is STILL left for you is justice. I am well aware of the fact that im not to judge as a hypocrite. And i have judged you correctly. You have to work at that speck a little harder!

Heneni

Of course I know of the bible. I, unlike you obviously, know that I cannot truly dismiss something as wrong if I have not been educated on it. I cannot say I don't believe in something if I do not know what that something is. That is common sense. Something that doesn't seem very common in these days. You assume incorrectly that a person who does not agree with your interpretation of god just "doesn't understand". I understand quite well. I also understand several other religions and beliefs. I simply believe yours are wrong. You can hem and haw all you want to, but that doesn't diminish the fact that I, as well as many others apparently, see your beliefs as wrong. Now you can take that as "persecution" or "hating your king" or whatever else kind of nonsense that allows you to sleep better at night. Fact is, we really don't care. I, and others, find your claims about not only your beliefs, but your ideas about our beliefs, absurd and pathetic and even laugh-worthy at times. All your preaching is for naught. Don't assume we don't understand...for we understand far too well by now.

Oh, and there you go again...worrying about my speck and still not doing one thing about your plank.

 

[Heneni]

Hmmm....shall i defend myself? Or shall i wait for the fair judge? I shall wait for the fair judge. He shall judge between you and me. Ok?

Now rest assured that we will both get what we deserve. I will get discipline if i have acted contrary to my beliefs, and you wont get discipline, you will get justice. Both are good.

Heneni

 

[Draka]

Hmmm....shall i defend myself? Or shall i wait for the fair judge? I shall wait for the fair judge. He shall judge between you and me. Ok?

Now rest assured that we will both get what we deserve. I will get discipline if i have acted contrary to my beliefs, and you wont get discipline, you will get justice. Both are good.

Heneni

So, you get discipline if you have acted contrary to your beliefs and I get "justice" hmm? Sure sounds like you have judged there.

Why does conversing with you remind me of this:

 

[Heneni]

So, you get discipline if you have acted contrary to your beliefs and I get "justice" hmm? Sure sounds like you have judged there.

Why does conversing with you remind me of this:

Wrong..to be your judge i would need the power of the written law, and have the power to excecute your sentence.

Since you have placed your trust in your goverment you must understand that they are the keepers of the lhuman law, and have the power to declare you guilty or innocent, and have the power to excecute your sentence if you were guilty. You are not the child of your goverment though..are you?

I have no power over the eternal destination of your spirit, so i cannot judge you even if i wanted. If i did, i would put myself up as judge and dishonour my father in heaven. The one who has power over my spirit said - 'If god be FOR you, who can be successfull against you?'

God is my judge and disciplines me if i make a mistake. I get disciplined because im one of his children. He is my father. The world does not get disciplined, they are under the law of god, the judge of mankind, and is judged and declared guilty and sentence executed by the power invested by and in the Judge of the world.

 

[Father Heathen]

 

[Draka]

Wrong..to be your judge i would need the power of the written law, and have the power to excecute your sentence.

Since you have placed your trust in your goverment you must understand that they are the keepers of the lhuman law, and have the power to declare you guilty or innocent, and have the power to excecute your sentence if you were guilty. You are not the child of your goverment though..are you?

I have no power over the eternal destination of your spirit, so i cannot judge you even if i wanted. If i did, i would put myself up as judge and dishonour my father in heaven. The one who has power over my spirit said - 'If god be FOR you, who can be successfull against you?'

God is my judge and disciplines me if i make a mistake. I get disciplined because im one of his children. He is my father. The world does not get disciplined, they are under the law of god, the judge of mankind, and is judged and declared guilty and sentence executed by the power invested by in the judge of the world.

Heneni...are you insane? Just wondering.

Hey, would you get off the wacked out "child of the government" crack smokin' nonsense? Honestly woman...you sound more and more ridiculous with every subsequent post you make.

My "Parents" guide me, love me, catch me if I fall, and prop me up when I need to lean on Them. They are not strict disciplinarians. I am responsible for my own mistakes and lessons to...myself. If I fail in something They do not punish me, I punish myself if I feel I need to be (for not all failure is a punishable offense). That is where karma and reincarnation come in. Both positive and negative are weighed and are used in determining the lessons of the next lifetime. I must say though, I feel so sorry for you that you have such an abusive parent that you choose to stay with. To imagine bowing and cowering and living my life by strict nonsensical rules all for pleasing a parent that would throw me to the dogs if I were to stand up for myself and tell them "no" just once. Wow, I'd runaway in a heartbeat. Sure am glad my deity loves me unconditionally. Conditions on love isn't true love so I feel for you. Want me to keep you in my prayers? Sounds like you need them.

 

[Heneni]

Heneni...are you insane? Just wondering.

Hey, would you get off the wacked out "child of the government" crack smokin' nonsense? Honestly woman...you sound more and more ridiculous with every subsequent post you make.

My "Parents" guide me, love me, catch me if I fall, and prop me up when I need to lean on Them. They are not strict disciplinarians. I am responsible for my own mistakes and lessons to...myself. If I fail in something They do not punish me, I punish myself if I feel I need to be (for not all failure is a punishable offense). That is where karma and reincarnation come in. Both positive and negative are weighed and are used in determining the lessons of the next lifetime. I must say though, I feel so sorry for you that you have such an abusive parent that you choose to stay with. To imagine bowing and cowering and living my life by strict nonsensical rules all for pleasing a parent that would throw me to the dogs if I were to stand up for myself and tell them "no" just once. Wow, I'd runaway in a heartbeat. Sure am glad my deity loves me unconditionally. Conditions on love isn't true love so I feel for you. Want me to keep you in my prayers? Sounds like you need them.

Dont hurt yourself this week draka.

Heneni

 

[Draka]

Dont hurt yourself this week draka.

Heneni

That's your response? That? :biglaugh:

Don't worry. Praying for your enlightenment won't hurt me one bit. May be futile since you are so unwilling to accept it, but hey, that's on you.

 

[Muffled]

This thread reminds me of that joke about the pagan in heaven.

A Pagan man dies and finds himself standing in front of luminescent gates, met by a another man who introduces himself as Peter. Peter says "Oh one of our Pagan brethren! Come right this way!" and leads the Pagan through the gates and towards a beautiful sunny field, surrounded by trees, wildflowers blowing in a wonderful breeze, and many people dancing and singing. He recognizes a few of his pagan friends who have gone before him and they are smiling and welcoming him to their circles. He then notices a group of people huddled at the edge of the meadow who are looking very upset and some almost livid. He turns to Peter, points to the unhappy group, and asks "What's wrong with them?" Peter looks and kind of chuckles and shakes his head "Oh them? They're fundamentalist Christians. They think they are in Hell."

Sometimes you can find a fantasy that has some truth to it. This doesn't appear to be one of them.

First of all - Heaven does not have gates. The New Jerusalem, that wonderful city in the heavens (universe) has gates of pearl and golden streets.

I suppose Peter gets associated with entry into Heaven (Paradise) because He has the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven but that isn't neccessarily the same thing as Heaven. It is more likely synonymous with the Kingdom of God which is within every believer no matter where he is.

My guess is that Pagans will spend their time hugging trees in the afterlife. The chance that a Pagan will get to Heaven is slim to none.

I am sure that the simplistic view of Fundamentalists can sometimes lead them astray but in this case, I don't think it will do them any harm. Heaven can only be perceived as Heaven and no one with an ounce of Christian undestanding could perceive it otherwise.

 

[Draka]

Sometimes you can find a fantasy that has some truth to it. This doesn't appear to be one of them.

First of all - Heaven does not have gates. The New Jerusalem, that wonderful city in the heavens (universe) has gates of pearl and golden streets.

I suppose Peter gets associated with entry into Heaven (Paradise) because He has the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven but that isn't neccessarily the same thing as Heaven. It is more likely synonymous with the Kingdom of God which is within every believer no matter where he is.

My guess is that Pagans will spend their time hugging trees in the afterlife. The chance that a Pagan will get to Heaven is slim to none.

I am sure that the simplistic view of Fundamentalists can sometimes lead them astray but in this case, I don't think it will do them any harm. Heaven can only be perceived as Heaven and no one with an ounce of Christian undestanding could perceive it otherwise.

Wow. Are you this much of a stick in the mud when someone tells you why the chicken crossed the road?