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For those who believe that only Christians go to heaven...

autonomous1one1

autonomous1one1

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
HoldemDB9 said:
.... So does God either let non-Christians into heaven or does he give some a MUCH better chance than others? I don't see any other way around it :confused:.
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Greetings Holdem. Permit me to offer that some perspectives on reality give the view that heaven is more like a state of being than a place. Obviously, this heaven is more about concern with what is within one's self than about what is within others. It is potential for any human. Another way to describe it is realization of union with God and entering the Kingdom of God that is within. From this perspective, one must take care about what is created internally from one's actions; each action has an immediate consequence within of more or less importance depending upon the action.
Regards,
a.1
 
Draka

Draka

Wonder Woman
Katzpur said:
Oh, how grateful I am for the God I believe in. I can't imagine worshipping yours.
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It's sad that some people actually prefer to believe that their god is so egotistical as to banish from his sight anyone who didn't bow unto him and him alone regardless of how good a person they were in life.

Katzpur's idea of Heaven and my idea of what waits for us in the afterlife may differ, but at least I think we agree on one thing...I fully believe that she and I will both "go" to the same "existence". Whatever that might turn out to be, I just don't believe it to be an exclusive little club.
 
HoldemDB9

HoldemDB9

Active Member
Draka said:
It's sad that some people actually prefer to believe that their god is so egotistical as to banish from his sight anyone who didn't bow unto him and him alone regardless of how good a person they were in life.
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This is Christianity here, nobody is good. Someone who tells one lie in their whole life is equal to Hitler, because they are both "sinners". The only thing that matters is worshipping the right God, not being "good".

I think its insane, and a disgusting thing to teach to children. You can sin all you want as long as you ask Jesus for forgiveness.
 
BucephalusBB

BucephalusBB

ABACABB
HoldemDB9 said:
This is Christianity here, nobody is good. Someone who tells one lie in their whole life is equal to Hitler, because they are both "sinners". The only thing that matters is worshipping the right God, not being "good".

I think its insane, and a disgusting thing to teach to children. You can sin all you want as long as you ask Jesus for forgiveness.
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Common, now you are just making up your own definition..
 
Falvlun

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
HoldemDB9 said:
I think its insane, and a disgusting thing to teach to children. You can sin all you want as long as you ask Jesus for forgiveness.
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In Christianity's defense, I don't think you can just "sin all you want". Accepting Jesus requires a true change of heart... the whole "a good tree won't bear bad fruit" sort of thing. Basically, good works don't save you, but good works will (or should be) the result of your salvation.

Besides, I would think that if God is as the Christians say, then he would be able to distinguish between someone who was just using Jesus so that they could sin, with someone who was legitamately seeking salvation from a perceived sinful nature.
 
Draka

Draka

Wonder Woman
Falvlun said:
In Christianity's defense, I don't think you can just "sin all you want". Accepting Jesus requires a true change of heart... the whole "a good tree won't bear bad fruit" sort of thing. Basically, good works don't save you, but good works will (or should be) the result of your salvation.

Besides, I would think that if God is as the Christians say, then he would be able to distinguish between someone who was just using Jesus so that they could sin, with someone who was legitamately seeking salvation from a perceived sinful nature.
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So which is the convicted murderer who never showed remorse for his actions until at the very end before he goes to execution and asks for a priest to bless him and pray with him while accepts Jesus into his life? Criminals like murders and rapists who "find god/Jesus" while in prison always seem to me like last ditch efforts "just in case". :sarcastic I find most "prison conversions" highly questionable and I'd have to wonder if "god" does too.
 
Falvlun

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Draka said:
So which is the convicted murderer who never showed remorse for his actions until at the very end before he goes to execution and asks for a priest to bless him and pray with him while accepts Jesus into his life? Criminals like murders and rapists who "find god/Jesus" while in prison always seem to me like last ditch efforts "just in case". :sarcastic I find most "prison conversions" highly questionable and I'd have to wonder if "god" does too.
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I would agree. It sounds sort of like the whole "atheist in a foxhole thing". A lot of people will ask god for help when they are in trouble, whether they actually believe in him or not. Crying out to god in these circumstances doesn't really indicate true belief, imo, just like a person who "confesses" under torture doesn't necessarily tell the truth.

But, in the end, if the Christian God is the real God, I suppose it would be up to him whether he chooses to ratify those last-minute conversions or not. He, at least, should know whether they were legitimate... or just scared.
 
C

challupa

Well-Known Member
Falvlun said:
I would agree. It sounds sort of like the whole "atheist in a foxhole thing". A lot of people will ask god for help when they are in trouble, whether they actually believe in him or not. Crying out to god in these circumstances doesn't really indicate true belief, imo, just like a person who "confesses" under torture doesn't necessarily tell the truth.

But, in the end, if the Christian God is the real God, I suppose it would be up to him whether he chooses to ratify those last-minute conversions or not. He, at least, should know whether they were legitimate... or just scared.
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To be honest I don't think a god would deny any of his/her creations. Everyone has something in them that is good. Behavior does not totally define a person. It is far too complex imo to be black and white.
 
Falvlun

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
challupa said:
To be honest I don't think a god would deny any of his/her creations. Everyone has something in them that is good. Behavior does not totally define a person. It is far too complex imo to be black and white.
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I would hope that is true, but then again, if God or gods exist, then she/he/it could be however she/he/it wanted to be. Or rather, the possible nature of God wouldn't be for us to decide.
 
HoldemDB9

HoldemDB9

Active Member
Bouncing Ball said:
Common, now you are just making up your own definition..
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No, I'm not just making up my own definition. MANY Christians think EXACTLY like this.

Falvlun said:
In Christianity's defense, I don't think you can just "sin all you want". Accepting Jesus requires a true change of heart... the whole "a good tree won't bear bad fruit" sort of thing. Basically, good works don't save you, but good works will (or should be) the result of your salvation.
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Good works don't save you, but good works is what you gets you saved? That makes no sense. You can be bad and if you truly believe in Jesus ans repent, then you will be forgiven. You can be good, but for God it is never enough (not even if you saved 1000 innocent people) so you will not be forgiven if you don't choose the right God.

Good works is not what God rewards people for, he rewards them for believing in Christ.
 
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