This is true, however the one in the womb has never heard it, but he will get the chance to see Him.
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For those who believe that only Christians go to heaven...
- Thread starter HoldemDB9
- Start date
InfinityUnlocked
Member
The FIRST problem is believing the crap that there are two groups... one destined for heaven and one destined for hell... if God truly does work that way, we're all doomed. Once a person stops being afraid to ask questions like you're asking, the reality starts to become clearer... a reality that no one knows what happens for sure, but chances are very high that God and the afterlife are NOTHING like the junk spread by religions that profess "do this/that or suffer for eternity". It's ridiculous to believe in a God that could love you, yet throw half of your family into hell for some reason that can only be justified in the mind of a sadist. Religion is mans attempt to define something that obviously defies being defined... you can't squeeze something like God into a book and say, there ya go. God is real in my opinion though I have no proof... the bible does more to create a state of disbelief than belief... in fact, I'd say that if you read the entire bible word for word and still believe in God... then you certainly have some faith. But most people get stuck in the fear of it all and go bananas trying to be a "good christian" and can't see that they are being manipulated by their own selfish (and perfectly fine) desire to live peacefully after death. After all, who would want anyone to suffer for eternity? No one, especially not a loving God that created everything we know. So surely if the bible was the word of God, you would have a book with an absolutely clear definition to anyone regardless of who, what or where, not confusion, dismay, depression and psychosis (some people get all nutty over it).
Draka
Wonder Woman
You're having a lot of fun here, aren't you, Draka?
What on Earth (or Tatooine) makes you think that?
Muffled
Jesus in me
:spit::biglaugh: OMG! You actually believe that? We can drill our way to hell? That has to be the single most ridiculously stupid thing I think I have ever read on this forum...and considering some of the prize threads on this forum...that's saying a LOT.
Really? Would that be Vulcan or Romulas? :areyoucra Is warp drive necessary or would a transporter get us there?
Perhaps you have never seriously looked? Though, truly, if you honestly believe that Hell is inside the planet Earth and Heaven is in a galaxy far far away I really don't hold out much hope for you to grasp other concepts.
That's why I don't entertain Christianity.
Seriously though, what, besides the bible, do you have that absolutely GAURANTEES that you have any "truth" whatsoever? :areyoucra
Oh boy. The omniscient argument. What fun. :sarcastic
My experience has been that you don't say much that matters and listen even more poorly. So my question is: do you have evidence to the contrary? I can tell you what the scientists say: under the earth's mantle is a fiery magma.
Obviously you don't have a clue how to get to Heaven. Somehow that doesn't surprise me.
I am supposed to be a mind reader? Provide a concept and I will give it an assessment.
There is nothing outside of truth (The Bible) that guarantees the truth. However Vulcan and Hel from the Greek and Norse mythologies provide insights that are not incompatible with Biblical truth.
Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
"There is nothing outside of truth (The Bible) that guarantees the truth." -- So if I tell you here and now that I AM THE ONE TRUTH, HARKEN UNTO ME. You will buy that, and you will consider every other comment I make to be the one TRUTH for all time? Because that IS what you have just argued. A book states that it is flawless. Innumerable bits of evidence arise that all seem to indicate the book is full of --it. But since you read the book, and the book said it is flawless, then evidence be (literally) damned, and you will ignore the evidence in favor of the book that tells you things.
Next - this book tells you that a place called 'heaven' exists, and that only following the edicts of this human-written book can you achieve this metaphysical plane of happiness. Again, you buy that for no other reason than a single, unsupported book, written by a bunch of old dead men.....told you so.
Furthermore - it also states that another, much less happy place, called 'Hell' exists for those that do NOT adhere to the book's teachings. . . . . and you buy it without hesitation. . . . .for no other reason than those old dead men told you to.
As for the Earth itself ------ Many siesmological 'soundings' of the Earth show that under the crust and mantle, there is molten solid/liquid iron and other elements. No inner hollow. . . . no big caverns. . . . no open flames erupting in an O2-bearing atmosphere. . . . no atmosphere at all in fact. Just solid/liquid magma. Sorry. No 'Hell'. Also, you should know......for future reference.....that almost all priests of every religion that supports the concepts of heaven and hell......agree that these mythological places are NOT physical locations in this universe, let alone a few miles under your feet.
P.S. - remember, that I have told you that I am THE ONE TRUTH. And better yet is the fact that my claim is utterly unsupported by any other source, therefore it must be True. :yes:
P.P.S. - You don't have a clue as to how to get to Heaven. And it is clear that you (and all 'born-agains') are DESPERATE to think you have.
P.P.P.S. - You are no sci-fi fan.
Draka
Wonder Woman
I'm not all that worried about "your experience" because you obviously don't pay attention. And yeah, the Earth has a molten core. That doesn't exactly mean Hell or don't you get that concept?
Obviously you
1. don't have a clue what sarcasm is and
2. are wrong about what I know
And neither one of those surprises me either.
You've been provided other concepts, you round-file every one.
So, a book that claims it is the truth is the truth because it says it is the truth? Nice. Good that you admit that you have no verified basis for your beliefs though.
Oh, and if you want to make comparisons between Christian mythology and other, older, mythologies, you might as well admit that the most logical explanation for there being so is that your mythology is simply based in the very same archetypal hero myths as the others are. Yours being younger doesn't mean it has any more truth or validity to it than any other. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's just fact.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
Its obvious that not all get an equal chance to become a Christian. For example, a child born in India (where 80% of the population is Hindu) does not have the same chance of becoming Christian as a child born in the USA (where I think 70%+ are Christian?).
I don't know why, but for some reason many Christians seem to think that you will be held accountable for not following, once you have simply "heard" of the Bible. Hearing of the Bible does not make everything all equal.
Obviously this is not at all fair. So does God either let non-Christians into heaven or does he give some a MUCH better chance than others? I don't see any other way around it
CHANCE to be Christian? That's absurd. Why would I want to have the chance to be Christian, or anyone?
God is not Christian. Religion is not Christian! God does not belong to Hinduism or Christianity. Your whole post is a little silly.
justamere10
Member
I read only a few messages in this thread but what I read leads me to think that it's based on the common black and white belief that there is only one heaven and one hell. Many believers probably live in fear and trembling about their inevitable death, wondering if they made it over the obscure thin line between the two, or blew it, the consequences being irrevocable and eternal, entirely up to a powerful and mysterious final judge.Its obvious that not all get an equal chance to become a Christian. For example, a child born in India (where 80% of the population is Hindu) does not have the same chance of becoming Christian as a child born in the USA (where I think 70%+ are Christian?).
I don't know why, but for some reason many Christians seem to think that you will be held accountable for not following, once you have simply "heard" of the Bible. Hearing of the Bible does not make everything all equal.
Obviously this is not at all fair. So does God either let non-Christians into heaven or does he give some a MUCH better chance than others? I don't see any other way around it
Maybe I didn't get that entirely correct but I think the belief in one heaven and one hell is quite common in Christendom.
Mormons, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a worldwide church with some 13,500,000 members, (of which I am a member) believe that all good people will be going to heaven. But LDS doctrine does not stop with just one heaven. We believe there are/will be three heavens, each with many mansions. Within those possibilities it is probable that everyone who merits placement in a kingdom of glory (in our belief that's almost everyone) will find a comfortable starting place where they will enjoy the company of like-minded neighbors, and have opportunities to learn and progress for eternity if they so choose.
That seems to me to be hugely more just than the common one heaven notion.
HoldemDB9
Active Member
No you have not answered this question previosuly, you (like always) have avoided the question. I suspect because you know that you are wrong and you don't want to look silly.
Ill tell you again in simple english. If everyone had an equal chance to become a Christian in this life, then unless due to coinsidence, there would be the same percentage of Christians in EVERY county on the planet. This is an undeniable fact. Now, you and I know that there is not the same percentage of Christians in every country on the planet. So you now have two choices, either your God is unjust (because he doe not give all an equal chance) or it is just a billion trillion to one coinsidence that the percentages are vastly different.
Care to reply? I know you are not stupid enough to not understand this, so I suspect its just ignorance. Please, please answer.
Yeah I didn't ask you who is and who is not going to be saved, I asked how it is fair. See my above reply to Muffled, feel free to answer. By saying what you have said in this post you have just admitted that your God is unfair. Care to reply?
HoldemDB9
Active Member
Care to tell me why my post is "silly"? It was aimed at Christians who believe that the only way to heaven is through Chirst.
HoldemDB9
Active Member
Makes sense, which is why I have no problem with LDS.
justamere10
Member
We're looking for a few more members.
Muffled
Jesus in me
This is fallacious reasoning. There is nothing in the soil of one land that makes success rates higher than another. There is nothing genetic that could make success rates higher. Howeveer it is possible for religious indoctrination to cloud a persons mind so that he can't see the truth when it is presented. God has still profferred salvation but it has been rejected. Since God isn't forcing anyone to believe, He is not responsible for a person's bad decisions.
Muffled
Jesus in me
If that is how a Mormon gets to heaven I doubt we will find any there.
Muffled
Jesus in me
It is an absolute truth of God in the Bible that he is Christtian.
Obviously not all relaigion is Christian.
I would say amen to that but that doesn't mean that Hindu's will ever get to heaven by way of Hinduism.
HoldemDB9
Active Member
No it's not, it's an undeniable mathematical FACT. And if you can understand 5th grade math, you would understand it. Ill say it again - If everyone had an equal chance to become a Christian in this life, then unless due to coincidence, there would be the same percentage of Christians in EVERY county on the planet.
If you take 5 million people and put them on island x, and you take another 5 million people and then put them on island y, then you gave them both the same chance of becoming Christian (or anything else), then unless due to a very rare coincidence, there will always be the same percentage of Christians on island y as there is on island x. Understand?
"Howeveer it is possible for religious indoctrination to cloud a persons mind so that he can't see the truth when it is presented."
This is the point that I have been trying to make all along. People born in India have had their minds clouded by Hinduism, but they have still heard of Christianity. People born in Saudi Arabia have had their minds clouded by Islam, but they have still heard of Christianity. So now that you've just accepted that not all will get an equal, fair, unbiased chance to choose Christianity in this life, unless God lets non-Christians into heaven or gives us another chance after we die, your God is unjust.
Please don't leave this thread acting as if you've answered my question and we just have different opinions. There are no different opinions here. I have shown you using simple basic indisputable math, that you are wrong.
Draka
Wonder Woman
Holdem, you're simply not going to get a direct answer from Muffled. He will not admit his god is unjust because that would topple his little belief structure he bases his whole world around. And he is never going to acknowledge others that don't believe as he does will ever be admitted into "heaven" either for that too, would topple his pedestel of excluvisity belief.
Shoot, what more can we possibly expect from a person that believes we can drill to hell, heaven is a plottable course in the universe, and now with "god is Christian"? Really? God is Christian? That makes no sense. :areyoucra Even from a Christian standpoint. and if he somehow is trying to mean that "god" is a Christian owned concept alone, well that's just as absurd. Truly, there is no reasoning with this man.
as an added note: It almost makes me feel a little ashamed as well that he uses the Pagan Wheel of the Year as his avatar. I'd hate to think that he'd be mistakenly associated with any of my beliefs by someone who didn't know any better. With all of his born-again evangelical no-way-but-through-Christ stuff he goes on with I really have to wonder why he would use that avatar anyway.
Shoot, what more can we possibly expect from a person that believes we can drill to hell, heaven is a plottable course in the universe, and now with "god is Christian"? Really?
God is Christian? That makes no sense. :areyoucra Even from a Christian standpoint. and if he somehow is trying to mean that "god" is a Christian owned concept alone, well that's just as absurd. Truly, there is no reasoning with this man.as an added note: It almost makes me feel a little ashamed as well that he uses the Pagan Wheel of the Year as his avatar. I'd hate to think that he'd be mistakenly associated with any of my beliefs by someone who didn't know any better. With all of his born-again evangelical no-way-but-through-Christ stuff he goes on with I really have to wonder why he would use that avatar anyway.
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HoldemDB9
Active Member
Holdem, you're simply not going to get a direct answer from Muffled. He will not admit his god is unjust because that would topple his little belief structure he bases his whole world around. And he is never going to acknowledge others that don't believe as he does will ever be admitted into "heaven" either for that too, would topple his pedestel of excluvisity belief.
Shoot, what more can we possibly expect from a person that believes we can drill to hell, heaven is a plottable course in the universe, and now with "god is Christian"? Really?
as an added note: It almost makes me feel a little ashamed as well that he uses the Pagan Wheel of the Year as his avatar. I'd hate to think that he'd be mistakenly associated with any of my beliefs by someone who didn't know any better. With all of his born-again evangelical no-way-but-through-Christ stuff he goes on with I really have to wonder why he would use that avatar anyway.
Well I haven't spoke much with Muffled and I was hoping that he was not this type of Christian, sad to hear that he is. I know he's not stupid enough to not understand my point, so I guess it has to be ignorance. I have to say though, ignoring and claiming to disagree with math is absolutely insane and by far the highest level of ignorance I have ever come across.
Muffled you are welcome at any time to come and show me how my side of the argument is "fallacious reasoning", but I don't suspect you will, since like Ive already said, it's undeniable BASIC math. GL proving that wrong.
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Muffled
Jesus in me
roflmao! If you had an iota of objectivity I would be nonplussed by your accusation of ignorance. However it is not I who only got as far as "fallacious reasoning" and didn't bother with the rest of the message. Respond to the rest of the message and it will give us something to discuss. As my brother likes to say statistics don't lie but people lie about statistics.