Gaza civilians killed at historic pace

[metis]

Ending the occupation and destroying the settlements might be a good start.

Which "occupation"? Also, the settlements aren't in Gaza.

But what you are not dealing with are the continued attacks on Israel by both missiles and sniper fire. Why do you think Hamas is doing this even well knowing the military superiority of the Israelis? Why did they murder and kidnap well over a thousand Israelis? Don't you think they knew how Israel would respond? And yet they did it anyway.

You're putting the onus on Israel and yet it was not Israel that started this.

 

[Bthoth]

Hamas is vile. And let's not forget why the Israelis have lost their minds.

HAMAS did a horrible deed and still commits atrocities.

Israelis lost their minds when taking jerusalem and removing the locals from their lands/homes and then expect impunity. Complete nonsense and then people that approve of it and grant israel the rights to oppression millions of people are no less than crazy too.

What i dug into is why israel exists in palestine and continues imposing apartheid and the answer, the actual reason for the divide is disgusting.

 

[metis]

If your only solution to protect Palestinian civilians is to demand the unilateral surrender of a terrorist group that is using Palestinians as human shields: you have condemned those Palestinians to death. This surrender will simply never ever happen.

No, it's Hamas that did this, and they will continue to do this as long as they remain in power.

There needs to be a path forward that deals with Hamas without condemning the stateless Palestinian people to live perpetually as collateral damage.

But how do you do that other than what's been offered? The Palestinians in Gaza vote for Hamas, thus they have to deal with such leadership much like we in the States have had to deal with. Our Civil War was no cakewalk, nor was our actions during WWII. When nations are attacked, they tend to respond, which is exactly what Israel is doing.

When Hamas stops fighting, Israel will stop, but Hamas keep attacking.

 

[Yerda]

Which "occupation"?

The occupation of Palestine.

Also, the settlements aren't in Gaza.

So?

But what you are not dealing with are the continued attacks on Israel by both missiles and sniper fire. Why do you think Hamas is doing this even well knowing the military superiority of the Israelis? Why did they murder and kidnap well over a thousand Israelis? Don't you think they knew how Israel would respond? And yet they did it anyway.

You would do this to provoke a powerful enemy into acting stupidly. Which they did. You do what the terrorists want and you lose.

You're putting the onus on Israel and yet it was not Israel that started this.

You asked what Israel could do. Did you not?

Also, I don't care who started it. We aren't talking about 8 year-olds kicking each others shins at the dinner table. Thousands of people are being killed. Hundreds of thouands displaced.

 

[metis]

I've got a better idea, Israel surrender half their land to the Palestinians and move their people out of the Palestinian half, its the only fair thing to do, Israeli crimes have become much worse than Hamas, Hamas is no longer the worse party

And you really believe that would placate Hamas?

You don't understand the situation and why Hamas was and is so willing to even sacrifice their own people. They started this well knowing what Israel would do.

 

[Bthoth]

Which "occupation"?

Jerusalem, west bank, golan, sinai.

Also, the settlements aren't in Gaza.

Correct. The people held in concentration camp gaza, are the refugees uprooted from their homes where the settlements are being made.

But what you are not dealing with are the continued attacks on Israel by both missiles and sniper fire.

It's been going back and forth for decades. I watched a video of an israeli soldier shoot a kid down in the streets from a roof top and when the senior officer opened the door to see who fired the shot, the soldier began hiding the weapon.

Just last week israeli snipers were firing into the hospital within gaza at anyone that moved.

Why do you think Hamas is doing this even well knowing the military superiority of the Israelis?

Oppressed people will eventually fight back. Most of the people within gaza are either orphans or widows from the half century of apartheid. Just about every palestinian still alive has dead family members from the apartheid/oppression/illegal occupation.

Why did they murder and kidnap well over a thousand Israelis?

Wow, it's war to israelis and why they killed so many civilians but it's murder if HAMAS does it.

The divide has lasted for so long, that it's about natural for the biased to use and maintain the israeli narrative.

Don't you think they knew how Israel would respond?

Israel has been bombing the concentration camp for decades. NO one figured that HAMAS would be so rude as evidenced on 10/7 but likewise, the oppression has lasted so long, that israel should have known that eventually they will retalliate.

And yet they did it anyway.

Sad but true

You're putting the onus on Israel and yet it was not Israel that started this.

Israel has been oppressing them people for over half a century.

 

[metis]

The occupation of Palestine.

"Palestine" no longer exists, but Jordan and Israel do.

You would do this to provoke a powerful enemy into acting stupidly. Which they did. You do what the terrorists want and you lose.

Well then, the onus logically belongs on those who were and are willing to sacrifice their own people, and that ain't Israel.

We aren't talking about 8 year-olds. Thousands of people are being killed. Hundreds of thousands displaced.

So, why do you think Hamas did this? Isn't it they that should take the blunt of the blame?

 

[libre]

The Palestinians in Gaza vote for Hamas,

The average Palestinian alive right now was not eligible to vote at the most recent election in Gaza circa 2006.

 

[Alien826]

I'm not blaming others.

Let's say that your place of residence was invaded by terorists, some of your family kidnapped and killed, and then they send rockets to destroy those who remain. What would you do? Just sit around and relitigate what's happened over the last several decades?

Now, don't song & dance this-- please stick to the question posed.

Sorry to answer this late, I just started reading this thread and may not finish it so if I'm duplicating something that you've already answered ignore it.

OK then. Let's complete the story to make it more like the Gaza situation. After entering my home and murdering people, they run up the street and enter an apartment building, taking some hostages with them. They barricade the whole building and start firing through the windows at the police (of course the police are involved by now). So what should the police do? Mine and blow up the whole building, killing the terrorists and any innocent person inside that gets caught in the blast? That's the current solution that's being applied.

I'm not an expert on these situations, but I suspect the police would ...

- Clear the immediate area
- Surround the building with armed cops and SWAT teams
- Put snipers on the surrounding roof tops
- Call in hostage negotiators
- Attempt to establish communications with the terrorists
- If all else failed, wait them out
- If that failed, I don't know, I said I'm no expert.

I imagine you will claim this is a bad comparison, but why? All the components are similar, terrorist attack, hostages, retreat to another fortified position, innocent participants. I agree that the equivalents to these police actions are difficult, but I would suggest that "blowing up the building" should always be the last resort, and even then avoided if simply waiting were possible.

Have I answered fairly and stuck to your question?

 

[metis]

Jerusalem, west bank, golan, sinai.

The Sinai is part of Egypt.

The people held in concentration camp gaza,

It is not a concentration camp, but it is VERY crowded, a large part of it due to the world's highest birth rate. And such hyperbole does not help ANY discourse.

Wow, it's war to israelis and why they killed so many civilians but it's murder if HAMAS does it.

Technically, not murder.

Israel has been bombing the concentration camp for decades.

When provoked by Hamas.

Israel has been oppressing them people for over half a century.

You don't know what you're talking about. I've been in the West Bank and on a joint Jewish/Palestinian kibbutz near Jerusalem. Have you ever been there? Have you ever talked with any Palestinians living there?

End of discussion as your throwing out garbage only creates more stink.

 

[metis]

Sorry to answer this late, I just started reading this thread and may not finish it so if I'm duplicating something that you've already answered ignore it.

OK then. Let's complete the story to make it more like the Gaza situation. After entering my home and murdering people, they run up the street and enter an apartment building, taking some hostages with them. They barricade the whole building and start firing through the windows at the police (of course the police are involved by now). So what should the police do? Mine and blow up the whole building, killing the terrorists and any innocent person inside that gets caught in the blast? That's the current solution that's being applied.

I'm not an expert on these situations, but I suspect the police would ...

- Clear the immediate area
- Surround the building with armed cops and SWAT teams
- Put snipers on the surrounding roof tops
- Call in hostage negotiators
- Attempt to establish communications with the terrorists
- If all else failed, wait them out
- If that failed, I don't know, I said I'm no expert.

I imagine you will claim this is a bad comparison, but why? All the components are similar, terrorist attack, hostages, retreat to another fortified position, innocent participants. I agree that the equivalents to these police actions are difficult, but I would suggest that "blowing up the building" should always be the last resort, and even then avoided if simply waiting were possible.

Have I answered fairly and stuck to your question?

What would stop the thousands of rockets fired into Israel?

Gotta go anyway, so take care.

 

[metis]

The average Palestinian alive right now was not eligible to vote at the most recent election in Gaza circa 2006.

Those that did have that onus on them, much like whom we as Americans may vote into office will rest on our shoulders. Elections have consequences.

Take care.

 

[Bthoth]

When Hamas stops fighting, Israel will stop, but Hamas keep attacking.

The term HAMAS means resistance, not attack

""Hamas, an acronym of its official name, the Islamic Resistance Movement, """

I see HAMAS as very similar to Irgun, the terrorist group that became IDF when israel was legally formed.

Both Israel and HAMAS are of the same culture of; fight to survive. The difference is, HAMAS is fighting at home and israel is based on foreign encroachment.

 

[Bthoth]

The Sinai is part of Egypt.

The blockade of gaza is illegal occupation per the UN. Now it is known as concentration camp gaza.

It is not a concentration camp, but it is VERY crowded, a large part of it due to the world's highest birth rate. And such hyperbole does not help ANY discourse.

I know, israeli defenders do not enjoy the label of 'concentration' camp gaza. Just as palestinians do not enjoy the illegal occupation, oppression and apartheid that israel maintains in palestine.

Technically, not murder.

Killing of women and children no matter the side, can be identified as murder to the families of the victims

When provoked by Hamas.

It goes back and forth and never ends because the criminals of one side, never seem to receive justice for the atrocities done by the other.

You don't know what you're talking about. I've been in the West Bank and on a joint Jewish/Palestinian kibbutz near Jerusalem. Have you ever been there? Have you ever talked with any Palestinians living there?

NO, i would never go to that apartheid. But yes, I have friends that have family members on both sides of the fences.

End of discussion as your throwing out garbage only creates more stink.

The garbage is trying to maintain a bias for one side over the other. The mess has lasted for over half a century, neither are doing what is right but it is very clear, that israel sustains the upper hand.

I often wonder if israel is of such quality, then why have they not taken the actions necessary to end the violence that the settlers continue to impose surrounding jerusalem and the west bank.

 

[Lyndon]

Israel has demonstrated that they do not have the moral high ground, there tactics in war are the lowest of the low

 

[Revoltingest]

But you are adding nothing to any serious discourse on this, thus your position still would leave Israel in a position whereas they take in the offensive missiles from Hamas while you expect Israel just to roll over and play dead. Unless you have something else to offer, this discussion just came to an end.

Your posts dwelling on the extreme measure
of Israel to "roll over and play dead" are the
opposite of serious.
Let them defend themselves by not committing
war crimes. And better yet by ending apartheid
& human rights violations of Palestinians.
Why not consider those more "Christian" options?

 

[Alien826]

What would stop the thousands of rockets fired into Israel?

Gotta go anyway, so take care.

Don't they have this Iron Dome thingy? I think most get shot down. But yes, my analogy was not exact as the police were able to effectively contain the terrorists.

What it all boils down to is the morality of killing the innocent in order to get the guilty. To be avoided as far as possible.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What it all boils down to is the morality of killing the innocent in order to get the guilty. To be avoided as far as possible.

What defines "as far as possible"?

 

[Orbit]

But you are adding nothing to any serious discourse on this, thus your position still would leave Israel in a position whereas they take in the offensive missiles from Hamas while you expect Israel just to roll over and play dead. Unless you have something else to offer, this discussion just came to an end.

I don't think you are adding anything to serious discourse when your non-solution is basically genocide.

 

[fantome profane]

What defines "as far as possible"?

Act as if those innocent Palestinian children were innocent Israeli children. As if they were your children. Do that, and you will avoid killing them, as much as possible.