Gaza civilians killed at historic pace

[fantome profane]

A religion based upon violent scripture will enable it.

Two.



(or is it three?)

 

[metis]

If Canada was under assault by native terrorists from a First Nation's reserve, it would be an inappropriate response to cut off the water, access to food, bomb any hospitals (if the nation was one of the very few with Hospitals) because of the actions of some native criminals.

This is because Canada denies Indigenous nations from meaningful self-government outside of self-governing agreements that consider those nations to be subject to the crown.

Similarly Canada should be expected to look after native civilians as though they were Canadian civilians, because Canada denies the native civilians their own self-determination.

I do not believe for a moment that those Israeli strategists and politicians would be accepted if they were bombing Israeli schools and hospitals that Hamas was hiding in. The civilian deaths are acceptable because they are Gazan, who are being framed as the enemy.

How should Israel respond? By stop blatantly disregarding it's obligation to target terrorists and protect the civilians.

https://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/20231129_international_community_has_to_clarify_red_lines_israel_must_not_cross_again

But neither of your points adequately deal with what's at hand dealing with Hamas and how to respond to thousands of rockets that have been fired from Gaza on targets in Israel. Israel has posted safter areas in Gaza they could go to, but Hamas continuously blocks them from moving.

Also, a reminder that Hamas purposefully uses its own civilians as shields and builds military facilities under schools, hospitals etc.

BTW, I am a Me'tis.

 

[Kenny]

Here is a good example of the inhumame treatment of Palestinian Prisoners by fascist prison guards

Released Palestinians allege abuse in Israeli jails

Palestinians tell the BBC they were beaten and had dogs set on them while in Israeli detention.

www.bbc.com

MSN

Yes… children are much worse and need abusive treatment.

Not to mention those who aren’t even Jewish (Thailand):

Hamas Released 23 Thai Hostages: What to Know

Thai nationals made up the single largest group of foreigners among the hostages in Gaza.

time.com

But Israelis are worse than those who are held by Hamas as per the convicted Palestinians who allege abuse. Reminds me of thieves who said, “we know not’ting and did not’ting” (to be read in the voice of Sargent Shultz"

 

[metis]

Here is a good example of the inhumame treatment of Palestinian Prisoners by fascist prison guards

Released Palestinians allege abuse in Israeli jails

Palestinians tell the BBC they were beaten and had dogs set on them while in Israeli detention.

www.bbc.com

I'm certainly not one who believes abuse is acceptable. Here in the States a few decades ago, we had a controversy over waterboarding, which the Bush Administration justified but simply I cannot.

 

[Revoltingest]

Two.



(or is it three?)

I referred to one.
There are many others.

 

[libre]

BTW, I am a Me'tis.

I had assumed such from the name. I hope my post did not come off as trying to educate you about Canadian colonialism, but explaining my argument in a context of our continent in regards to the obligations of occupying nations to the occupied.

I don't really understand what you mean when you suggest I'm not providing an adequate response to what Israel should do in response to Qassams.

I don't believe that respecting the red lines that human rights groups are drawing will inhibit Israel's ability to protect innocents from Hamas missiles. I believe rejecting the siege tactics is important because these tactics reproduce the conditions that terrorists come from.

 

[icehorse]

I had assumed such from the name. I hope my post did not come off as trying to educate you about Canadian colonialism, but explaining my argument in a context of our continent in regards to the obligations of occupying nations to the occupied.

I don't really understand what you mean when you suggest I'm not providing an adequate response to what Israel should do in response to Qassams.

I don't believe that respecting the red lines that human rights groups are drawing will inhibit Israel's ability to protect innocents from Hamas missiles. I believe rejecting the siege tactics is important because these tactics reproduce the conditions that terrorists come from.

I'd still like to understand the context that you are using when you make your posts? For example, if I understand you correctly, it's your opinion that the Israelis are occupiers? If that's correct, then you must be using a certain historical context to make that "occupiers" conclusion, and I'd like to understand the context you're using.

To be clear, I don't have a secret answer that I think is "correct". Quite the contrary, the more I study this situation the more difficult it seems to know how to evaluate it.

 

[libre]

For example, if I understand you correctly, it's your opinion that the Israelis are occupiers?

It is my opinion that Gaza is a territory occupied by Israel.
This is also the perspective of the United Nations General Assembly, the United Nations Security Council and the International Court of Justice.

Wikipedia: Israeli-occupied territories - Wikipedia

 

[Revoltingest]

I'd still like to understand the context that you are using when you make your posts? For example, if I understand you correctly, it's your opinion that the Israelis are occupiers? If that's correct, then you must be using a certain historical context to make that "occupiers" conclusion, and I'd like to understand the context you're using.

To be clear, I don't have a secret answer that I think is "correct". Quite the contrary, the more I study this situation the more difficult it seems to know how to evaluate it.

What's the context of your post?

 

[icehorse]

It is my opinion that Gaza is a territory occupied by Israel.
This is also the perspective of the United Nations General Assembly, the United Nations Security Council and the International Court of Justice.

Wikipedia: Israeli-occupied territories - Wikipedia

Ok, that's a start! So in your wiki link there are 8 historical maps of the area. Which ones do you think are relevant? And I have to say I'm much more interested in your thoughts, not so much interested in what the UN says. (You know, the whole "appeal to authority" thing )

 

[libre]

Ok, that's a start! So in your wiki link there are 8 historical maps of the area. Which ones do you think are relevant?

How about the big one that says 'Israel and the Occupied Territories' in the top right?
Does it seem relevant enough to you?

And I have to say I'm much more interested in your thoughts, not so much interested in what the UN says.

I think you should re-access your priorities.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Simply put, Hamas planned this knowing well what Israel in general would likely do, so let's put the blame where it truly is due. If they truly were concerned about themselves and other Palestinians, they certainly wouldn't have done this.

Exactly.

I'm sure Hamas embarked on a campaign vilifying Israel because they knew what the response would be after such an attack.

Hamas doesn't care about his own civilians to begin with, much less Israel if it means playing the sympathy card, which seems to be working with a lot of gullible people now.

 

[icehorse]

I think you should re-access your priorities.

I think this was in reference to my comments about the UN? When I think for myself, I think the UN is not to be trusted on the matter of Israel. The OIC has a large voting block in the UN and has initiated dozens of anti-Israel resolutions. This is during the same period when places like NK are largely ignored by the UN.

How about the big one that says 'Israel and the Occupied Territories' in the top right?
Does it seem relevant enough to you?

I understand that that's the UN's opinion, but I disagree.

Now here's the thing, we're in a debate forum I thought the idea was for posters to debate and discuss their own ideas?

What I think is that ~100 years ago the Brits really screwed up when they carved up the Ottoman empire. I think that Jordan, Egypt, and Israel all ought to concede some land around the SE corner of Israel and make that the Palestinian homeland. That plan has a lot of historical and strategic benefits.

your thoughts?

 

[libre]

This is during the same period when places like NK are largely ignored by the UN.

In the last 75 years the United Nations has literally run military offensives against North Korea, sanctioned all of it's main industries to crush it's economic development, prevented imports and heavily sanctioned it's military and nuclear programs.

What UN resolutions do you consider to so impactful to Israel that that the UN is 'ignoring' North Korea by comparison?

 

[libre]

I think that Jordan, Egypt, and Israel all ought to concede some land around the SE corner of Israel and make that the Palestinian homeland.

Will come back to this but just putting a pin in a draft for the moment.

 

[metis]

I don't believe that respecting the red lines that human rights groups are drawing will inhibit Israel's ability to protect innocents from Hamas missiles. I believe rejecting the siege tactics is important because these tactics reproduce the conditions that terrorists come from.

Before hitting a zone in the south, the IDF lists zones to be it and allows time for people to leave. Trouble is that cell service is minimal.

Missiles from Hamas sites were launched again last night, so what do you think Israel should do? Nada?

 

[metis]

As an example: let's say that next week North Korea sent nuclear-tipped missiles against American cities, and some made it through. What would you have us here in the States do? With you Europeans and Aussies, what would you do under the same scenario?

 

[Lyndon]

The IDF should be real men and go in there and fight Hamas and leave the civilians alone, not be sissies dropping bombs for no good reason

 

[metis]

The IDF should be real men and go in there and fight Hamas and leave the civilians alone, not be sissies dropping bombs for no good reason

It's really not that simple, plus was Hamas itself so caring and considerate?

Maybe you can go there and tell both Hamas and the Israelis what they should do, and maybe go right where the conflict is so you can see it all for yourself. Good luck.

 

[Lyndon]

It's really not that simple, plus was Hamas itself so caring and considerate?

Maybe you can go there and tell both Hamas and the Israelis what they should do, and maybe go right where the conflict is so you can see it all for yourself. Good luck.

well your advice seems to be continue bombing innocent women and children so your credibility is on display