God

[Runewolf1973]

Don't really know if there is a purpose behind it or not, it just does what it does. It exists. Does there have to be a purpose? Perhaps it is only the human mind that perceives the need for a purpose to everything. Perhaps the purpose of life is to experience the Here-Now and in that it has already filled it's purpose.

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

I believe.... God is bigger than most religions realize & there is only one true God. God is every Atom & Molecule & Quark, God is your PC and the desk it sits on, God is Me & You, God is all of our thoughts, God is every Heaven & Hell... every religion, God is the Trees & Rocks & Oceans, God is the Earth & Solar System, God is the Galaxy & Universe - every Universe and every dream, God is - All That Is. Debate anyone?

Just one , the creator of all these

 

[S-word]

Post 111. "It would not be entirely correct.... because what I speak of would not just be the Universe - but - every Universe... and so much more. "

The Clarity of thought and language can be found in my posts after the first post. They must be read if you wish to challenge me - it is impossible to judge my belief system on the strength of one post.

We who read your posts must make a judgement whether to accept or reject your belief, to beleive that which you believe, or disbelieve that which you believe. But as your belief is a conglomeration of miriads of minor beliefs and I have neither the time nor the inclination to break your belief down into its individual beliefs of which your overall concept is but the compilation of all those minor beliefs, then I say to you as I say to someone who tries to convince me that they had been abducted by aliens, "I believe that you believe your Belief," and I hope that what you believe leads you to salvation.

 

[Judgment]

Atotalstranger: Well, I can call a frog an orange, but if it's green and hops, I'm not putting it my juicer.

Your response makes no sense in relation to my post.

 

[Judgment]

Beaudreaux: Muslims believe Jews are wrong about God. Jews believe They are right about God. These are positions that, according to the rules of logic, CANNOT both be true. It has nothing to do with how my mind entered into it. It has to do with what logic is.
But hey, according to you, I'm right aren't I? My belief that your worldview is illogical, immature and the philosophical equivalent of "can't we all just get along?" is part of the one big truth, so it can't be wrong. Just like all the other views of God that you consider right, you consider mine right too, right?

It has everything to do with your mind - and what you consider to be logical. In your mind God does not exist at all - so - I 'Imagine' you would say that anyone that believes in a God of any kind is illogical. Is this your belief?


I will try to explain again. I do not believe that 'every' view of God is 'right'. I have said that Muslims believe in Allah - so this path is 'right' for 'them'. Not me - my beliefs are different - BUT - I would not try to deny them their right to believe and God would not deny their free will. Same as the followers of Yahweh. In a previous post I challenged the teachings of both. At the core - it is all an illusion.

Beaudreaux: I didn't belittle you when I pointed out that your worldview is illogical (which you must consider to be right since everything is true). I belittled you right after you insinuated that I was a coward.

By saying that my worldview is illogical is to belittle. It is no more illogical than an athiest saying they know for sure there is no God. Some who take the low road of belittling an opponent - and then - saying they are done and leaving - sure sounds like they lack the courage to back up their claims. You needed to be called out - and with each new post you reveal youself.


And.. you did not just belittle - you accused me of lie-ing and not believing in what I was saying. Like I said - your true character has come through. A person's true character can never hide long.

Beaudreaux:Sweet! My conception of God is that there isn't one and that your worldview is illogical. I am glad that you do not think I am wrong.

You say you do not believe in God - how are you so sure that a God of any kind does not exist ?

 

[Judgment]

Mohammad Beiruti: Just one , the creator of all these

The Creator and all of these are one in the same.

 

[Judgment]

S - Word: We who read your posts must make a judgement whether to accept or reject your belief, to beleive that which you believe, or disbelieve that which you believe. But as your belief is a conglomeration of miriads of minor beliefs and I have neither the time nor the inclination to break your belief down into its individual beliefs of which your overall concept is but the compilation of all those minor beliefs, then I say to you as I say to someone who tries to convince me that they had been abducted by aliens, "I believe that you believe your Belief," and I hope that what you believe leads you to salvation.

Of course - that is all anyone is doing when judging a belief system - I am explaining mine. It makes sense to me and does not concern me if others believe it. By saying God is a combination of everything - does not mean there are endless beliefs to break down. We can glimpse around the corner and see through the illusion of our creation.

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

The Creator and all of these are one in the same.

the are not alike,

These things you've mentioned are created, but Allah is the creator

 

[Judgment]

Mohamed Beiruti: the are not alike,

These things you've mentioned are created, but Allah is the creator

To you - Allah is the creator. Others believe in other God's or no God's. Are you right and are they wrong?

 

[BucephalusBB]

To you - Allah is the creator. Others believe in other God's or no God's. Are you right and are they wrong?

possibly

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

To you - Allah is the creator. Others believe in other God's or no God's. Are you right and are they wrong?

Qura'an ch.21 Prophets

[16] Not for (idle) sport did We create the heavens and the earth and all that is between!

[17] If it had been Our wish to take (just) a pastime, We should surely have taken it from the things nearest to Us, if We would do (such a thing)!

[18] Nay, We hurl the Truth against falsehood, and it knocks out its brain, and behold, falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false) things ye ascribe (to Us).

[19] To Him belong all (creatures) in the heavens and on earth: even those who are in His (very) Presence are not too proud to serve Him, Nor are they (ever) weary (of His service):

[20] They celebrate His praises night and day, nor do they ever flag or intermit.


[21] Or have they taken (for worship) gods from the earth who can raise (the dead)?


[22] If there were, in the heavens and the earth, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both! But glory to Allah, the Lord of the Throne: (High is He) above what they attribute to Him!

 

[Judgment]

Bouncing Ball: possibly

Ah, yes - That is wrong! My Way is the only Way! – My Truth is the only Truth! – My God is the only God! I hear that all too often.....

There is only ‘one way’ according to many holy books – and unfortunately, once one becomes a follower of such dogma, that dogma becomes part of them, and when they hear something, anything that does not match with that belief system they will only say – That is wrong! My Way is the only Way! – My Truth is the only Truth! – My God is the only God!

 

[BucephalusBB]

Mohammed, Again you are not really saying anything huh?

If there were, in the heavens and the earth, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both!

There is confusion in both.. So I guess there must be other gods besides Allah, right?

 

[Judgment]

Mohammed Beiruti: Qura'an ch.21 Prophets

[16] Not for (idle) sport did We create the heavens and the earth and all that is between!

[17] If it had been Our wish to take (just) a pastime, We should surely have taken it from the things nearest to Us, if We would do (such a thing)!

[18] Nay, We hurl the Truth against falsehood, and it knocks out its brain, and behold, falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false) things ye ascribe (to Us).

[19] To Him belong all (creatures) in the heavens and on earth: even those who are in His (very) Presence are not too proud to serve Him, Nor are they (ever) weary (of His service):

[20] They celebrate His praises night and day, nor do they ever flag or intermit.


[21] Or have they taken (for worship) gods from the earth who can raise (the dead)?


[22] If there were, in the heavens and the earth, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both! But glory to Allah, the Lord of the Throne: (High is He) above what they attribute to Him!

So.. what is to become of the Unbelievers of Allah?

 

[BucephalusBB]

So.. what is to become of the Unbelievers of Allah?

What's best is not always what's true..

 

[Judgment]

Bouncing Ball: What's best is not always what's true..

What is best?

 

[S-word]

Of course - that is all anyone is doing when judging a belief system - I am explaining mine. It makes sense to me and does not concern me if others believe it. By saying God is a combination of everything - does not mean there are endless beliefs to break down. We can glimpse around the corner and see through the illusion of our creation.

There are many people, even myself, who believe as you believe that God is all that is, but when we break their beliefs down to the individual concepts which have evolved into that concept which is the compilation of all their minor beliefs, we find that they do not have the backup information to verify their belief that God is all that exists. By breaking my belief down I can paint a clearer picture of my God.

All that exists in this physical universal body is created from invisible molecules, which were formed by the gathering together of invisible atoms, which were formed by the gathering together of sub-atomic particles, which are formed from the quantum of all that exists. Man, is the species to have formed within the living universal body, as the most high of all the species that preceded him, over which he has gained dominion, with the capability of comprehending the invisible “I AM’ which had developed in that species which is the image of God. And your body which is created and activated by the divine animating principle(Soul=life-force) which pervades and activates the entire living universal body, began as a single cell which divided into two, each cell occupying different positions in space and therefore in time, as no two objects can occupy the same position in time, the further that an object is away from you, the further back in time do you observe it, some of those stars that you gaze at in the night sky, are billions and billions of light years away from you, and you see them as they are billions and billions of years in your past, they may not even exist in your position in time, even if they exploded a billion years ago, you will never see it, because you will have been dead for billions of years, by the time the light of that explosion reaches the earth upon which human being were formed.

Wave particles or photons which are the quantum of electromagnetic energy, and which are in reality not particles at all, having zero mass and no electric charge, but carrying angular and linear momentum, are believed to be the discrete elementary particles from which all that exists is formed. There is nothing but a swirling, vibrating, dancing, boundless cloud of invisible wave particles which all occupy different positions in space and time, which your created brain perceives as this eternal and ever evolving Cosmos. In reality there is no such thing as sound, a hammer strike a rock and silent vibrating waves travel outward from the impact, those waves enter your ear and strike your eardrum and are then converted to electric pulses that your brain translates to that which you the spirit, who is developing within that human body, perceive as sound. The molecules that make up the scented aroma of a flower have no smell, they are taken into your created nostrils where the molecular combination is analysed, which analysis is sent to the brain as an electric pulse where it is translated as a sweet aromatic scent, take away the eyes and all perception of form, colour and distance cease to exist etc, etc, in other words, without the created senses the tangible and visible universe cannot exist, but the boundless cloud of swirling individual patterns of wave particles which is the eternal evolving mind that is God, remains, shinning in the darkness which comprehends it not.

Romans 1: 18, God’s anger is revealed from heaven against all the sin and evil of those people whose evil ways prevent the truth from being known. God punishes them, because what can be known about God is plain to them, for God made it plain in the creation itself which is the physical representation of the invisible cloud of swirling evolving patterns in the eternal mind that is God. For by contemplating the visible creation, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, they are perceived in the visible creation itself. So these people have no excuse at all! They know God, who is Omnificent, Omni-potent and Omni-present pervading all that exists, but they do not give him the honour that belongs to him, nor do they thank him. Instead, their thoughts have become complete nonsense, and their empty minds are filled with darkness. They say they are wise, but they are fools; instead of worshipping the immortal God, they worship images made to look like mortal man etc. What a dreadful thing it is to be overtaken by the anger of God.

 

[Beaudreaux]

It has everything to do with your mind - and what you consider to be logical.

No, Judgement, it doesn't. I am not using the word "logic" as a colloquialism that means "makes sense." Logic is a well defined discipline with specific rules. In fact, there is a branch of logic that is more like math than rhetoric. Logic is the foundation of deductive reasoning and is built upon basic axioms. One of the first order axioms of logic is:

x = x (Everything is itself)
​

From this simple principle of identity, we derive several other things that must be true:

It is imposible for x to not be x
​

Or, put another way:

x cannot be itself and also not be itself
​

This principle is intuitively obvious when you insert real world scenarios:

• I am here and I am also not here (can't be)
• I got my paycheck today and I also did not get my paycheck today (silly)
• Allah is the one true God and He is also not the one true God.(getting the picture?)

In logical terms (terms used in the study of logic), we call such positions "mutually exclusive". This is a shorthand way of describing two positions that CANNOT both be true because the truth of one excludes the possibility of the truth of the other.

The Jewish conception of Yaweh and the Muslim conception of Allah are exactly such mutually exclusive positions. Jews say that Yaweh is the one and only true God and that there are no others. Muslims say that Allah is the one and true God and that there are no others. Your position says they are both correct and is BY DEFINITION illogical. It is not an insult. It is not a put down. It is a straightforward, emotionless description of your stance. I even went on to say that there are many mystic worldviews where the it is fine to embrace logical contradictions, but I personally can't do it. Do you understand? I can't lay it out much more plainly than this.

In your mind God does not exist at all - so - I 'Imagine' you would say that anyone that believes in a God of any kind is illogical. Is this your belief?

Not at all as I hope I have adequately explained above.

I will try to explain again. I do not believe that 'every' view of God is 'right'.

Judgement in post #194: "I do not believe that other conceptions of God are wrong - and I would never say such a thing."

(text coloring and picture added)I have said that Muslims believe in Allah - so this path is 'right' for 'them'. Not me - my beliefs are different - BUT - I would not try to deny them their right to believe and God would not deny their free will. Same as the followers of Yahweh. In a previous post I challenged the teachings of both.

​

At the core - it is all an illusion.​

Perhaps it would help if you would define the difference between "right" and "right for them". When you say that Islam is right "for them", what do you mean? Do you mean that in the grand scheme of things it is not correct, but they THINK it is?

By saying that my worldview is illogical is to belittle.

Dude, would you grow up please and stop being so sensitive. Saying your worldview is illogical not a personal attack. It is saying that it violates the rules of logic. Something I hope I have demonstrated at a level you can understand. I even said that I did not mean it as an insult! Look, if I were to say to you:

• Some postal carriers have gone nutty and shot people
• John is a postal carrier
• Therefore, John is going to go nutty and shoot people

You would be well within your rights to say that my argument was illogical. You would not be "belittling" me. You would be pointing out that the conclusion is not necessitated by the premises.

Some who take the low road of belittling an opponent - and then - saying they are done and leaving - sure sounds like they lack the courage to back up their claims. You needed to be called out - and with each new post you reveal youself.

Look, I was trying to be nice and I thought I made that clear. You do not believe in the most basic rules of logic, so how can we have a conversation??? I thought, rather than sit here and point out the varied and obvious logical holes in what is clearly a mystic worldview, I would leave you alone to explore the realms of "It's all an illusion in the world of magic!". Fine, you called me out. Let's do this.

And.. you did not just belittle - you accused me of lie-ing and not believing in what I was saying. Like I said - your true character has come through. A person's true character can never hide long.

Well, as you know, that's correct for me. I know you would never try and deny me my right to belief that.

You say you do not believe in God - how are you so sure that a God of any kind does not exist ?

Wait....are you trying to say I'm not correct? Look, the truth is a combination of everything, including my belief that there is no God and that you're worldview reads like the introduction to a Doug Henning magic special. It's illogical, immature and says "Hey, nobody is wrong! Everything is an illusion. We're all right 'for us'. Whoopie!!"

Thankfully, from your earlier posts I know that you would NEVER say that my view of your position is wrong.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Your response makes no sense in relation to my post.

I disagree. If you ever figure it out, hit me back.

 

[Alla Prima]

Qura'an ch.21 Prophets

[16] Not for (idle) sport did We create the heavens and the earth and all that is between!

[17] If it had been Our wish to take (just) a pastime, We should surely have taken it from the things nearest to Us, if We would do (such a thing)!

[18] Nay, We hurl the Truth against falsehood, and it knocks out its brain, and behold, falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false) things ye ascribe (to Us).

[19] To Him belong all (creatures) in the heavens and on earth: even those who are in His (very) Presence are not too proud to serve Him, Nor are they (ever) weary (of His service):

[20] They celebrate His praises night and day, nor do they ever flag or intermit.


[21] Or have they taken (for worship) gods from the earth who can raise (the dead)?


[22] If there were, in the heavens and the earth, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both! But glory to Allah, the Lord of the Throne: (High is He) above what they attribute to Him!

Allah is Muhammad's fantasy. You're free to make it yours as well if you wish however you're not free to force your fantasy on me or others who choose to reject the fantasy. Allah no more created my world than did a fetid dingo kidney.