Hamas must be eradicated

[Sargonski]

There are too many points of disagreement between us to be worth debating.

But I will say that "easy peasy" was sarcasm

Nothing to debate in any case friend .. IDF is way bigger Terrorist - War Criminal - than Hamas .. on that we can agree. The disagreement is on how we can help the Palestinians defend themselves against the foreign occupier slaughtering their Children - babies - and fetuses on mass.

Turkey is ready to pounce .. Hezbolla has 100,000 missiles waiting to be launched .. and Iran has itchy trigger finger ... and don't count Egypt out if the Horror and atrocity continues ... and not so "Easy Peasy" as like Gaza .. much of the Israeli military is among civilian population missile defense and so on .. using the population as "human shields" .. and so to has to be carpet bombed indiscriminantly like Israel is doing .. these nations then will be guilty of the same war crimes Israel is commiting ..

 

[Sargonski]

It's not even about DNA or your ancestry since even Jewish converts are covered by the "right of return". It's just religious rubbish. So I can convert to Judaism and then go push a Palestinian family out of their homes in an illegal settlement with the backing of the Israeli state, when I have no Jewish ancestry. What a farce.

Part of the Zionist Trope is about having some historical right to the land - then there is the religious rubbish .. along with the nationalist rubbish of the extremists .. who have been Ethnically cleansing the land since 1948 .. displacing indigenous people from their homes - putting these people into the Open Air Concentration Camp known as Gaza.

 

[Bthoth]

Give me a break. The US and Israel are the biggest terrorists in the world.

leadership in both perhaps but neither as a whole.

 

[icehorse]

Nothing to debate in any case friend .. IDF is way bigger Terrorist - War Criminal - than Hamas .. on that we can agree

nope, not agreed.

I think both sides on this debate have made their arguments - we just disagree. But the good news is that it's extremely complex, so disagreement isn't as disheartening as it might be on other topics.

 

[Bthoth]

Indeed .. its rare .. but happens and yes .. Mossad is second only to the Pentagon in the effective use of propaganda.

The "Promised Land" narrative is indeed a historical joke. The freaken land was Canaanite long before David showed up (who was himself of canaanite ancestry) and the indigenous settlers in Palestine .. who we now know as Palestinians .. all have Canaanite DNA .. The land is just as much the historical land as the folks removed by the Nakba - Ethnically cleansing the land of over 400,000 "Canaanite People" in 1948 .. a cleansing which .. "By the Grace of the Zionist extremist" continued .. and continues to this day.

yep, they are brethren of nomadic (arab) tribes and egyptian migrations.

The egyptians brought the organized religious format and centralizing theme. As well the knowledge of stone works and temple building.

The zionist need that mount to build a temple which is the focal reason that they are there in palestine rather than a tropical island with the streets paved in gold. (with the amount of funding and manpower wasted to maintain that apartheid)

 

[Bthoth]

Sargonski said:
Nothing to debate in any case friend .. IDF is way bigger Terrorist - War Criminal - than Hamas .. on that we can agree

I can....... i have watched the mess for over half a century and have no doubt

Heck the IDF began by incorporating the originally identified terrorists of the region, irgun!

nope, not agreed.

I think both sides on this debate have made their arguments - we just disagree. But the good news is that it's extremely complex, so disagreement isn't as disheartening as it might be on other topics.

that's a nice approach.

 

[Sargonski]

leadership in both perhaps but neither as a whole.

US = #1 hands down if we are looking a the #of Dead as a metric .. or rather # of Civilian Deaths .. number 1 in the world for at least the last 50 years .. Rotten Ronnie and his Admin/Crew .. and related spawn being particularly bad .. although .. Obama did try to give a run for the money .. the Obama Biden crew ..

What nation can remotely compare ?

 

[Sargonski]

yep, they are brethren of nomadic (arab) tribes and egyptian migrations.

The egyptians brought the organized religious format and centralizing theme. As well the knowledge of stone works and temple building.

The zionist need that mount to build a temple which is the focal reason that they are there in palestine rather than a tropical island with the streets paved in gold. (with the amount of funding and manpower wasted to maintain that apartheid)

Personally .. I am huge fan of Israel and Jewish Culture - is an amazing Nation in so many ways .. amazing people .. just happen to have a crap situation this blood feud .. and some radical Zionists have gotten into power .. these coupled with the hard core religious radical extremists in a nasty union .. on the other side of the coin .. I have little use for the Islamist - put those believing in strict sharia -- wanting to force religious belief on others through physical violence (Law) - on the level of garbage human.. most of them .. blissfully unaware that this is what believing in that crap means .. Same as the Collectivist Utilitarianism of the Progressive Blue Crew - woke joke - cancel culture .. same desire to stomp on individual rights and freedoms .. one using religion as justification for law .. the other using fallacious utilitarianism as justification for law -- messing with essential liberty.

That said .. War crimes are war crimes - I have respect for the Rule of Law principle .. one person not to be punished for the crimes of another .. if you want the Bible passage OT - Child not to be punished for the sins of the father - each according to their own sin NT Matt 7:12 -- The Golden Rule . don't do to others what you hate. Hamurrabi's Law Code .. Buddha .. Confucius .. and lest we not forget Islam -- Muhammad said something to the effect of "no coercion in Islam" .. and in a perfect world .. such would be the case .. and we would abide by one of the oldest principles of what constitutes humanity .. something less degraded to the animal.

There is a bar out there .. and this is it. I don't do Collective Punishment .. even against "good for nutting" populations - OK .. is just this rule I have.. no nuts no guts u understand ?

 

[libre]

A preemptive strike is often necessary if one doesn't want to fall victim to others attacking, and tensions seem to have gotten to the point that war was coming. Perhaps shows more the intelligence gathered by Israel at the time.

I'm confident that those defending Israel in this thread would never be willing to give that benefit of the doubt to Egypt or any terrorist paramilitary.
Why does Israel deserve it?

 

[libre]

It's not even about DNA or your ancestry since even Jewish converts are covered by the "right of return". It's just religious rubbish. So I can convert to Judaism and then go push a Palestinian family out of their homes in an illegal settlement with the backing of the Israeli state, when I have no Jewish ancestry. What a farce.

Judaism is not a simple religion to convert to, but nonetheless it is very silly that a white man who is born in the US and converts to Judaism has a more 'legitimate' claim to land in Israel than the Palestinian who has been there for a dozen generations to Zionists today.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I certainly agree with the spirit of your idea.

I guess my thinking is that it would work on many people, but that the fundies are too deranged. We cannot assume any level of normal logic or psychological responses from them.

Ow, certainly. Fundies are, for the most part, a lost cause.
But the fundies gain power on the shoulders of the "moderates". The fundies grow in number by radicalizing the "moderates".

And that's where you can hurt the fundies: make the moderates see that those who are branded the "enemy" by the fundies, in fact are not the enemy at all. Make them see that the fundies themselves are the enemy. 90% of the victims of the fundies... are muslims. The majority of their attacks are against other muslims...

 

[Mock Turtle]

I'm confident that those defending Israel in this thread would never be willing to give that benefit of the doubt to Egypt or any terrorist paramilitary.
Why does Israel deserve it?

How would I know as to what intelligence any party has regarding any possible adversary? And given that Israel is surrounded by so many possible foes, one can understand perhaps why they might be a bit trigger-happy.

 

[Revoltingest]

How would I know as to what intelligence any party has regarding any possible adversary? And given that Israel is surrounded by so many possible foes, one can understand perhaps why they might be a bit trigger-happy.

It is indeed understandable why Israelis so easily
commit human rights violations & war crimes.
This leads to understanding why Hamas attacked
Israel.
The important thing...if solution is the goal...is to
figure out what each side needs for peace. But
there is only one side that has overwhelming
control over the other, so it falls to Israel to
end the oppression of Palestinians. This is
the beginning of a long bumpy road to peace.

 

[Mock Turtle]

It is indeed understandable why Israelis so easily
commit human rights violations & war crimes.
This leads to understanding why Hamas attacked
Israel.
The important thing...if solution is the goal...is to
figure out what each side needs for peace. But
there is only one side that has overwhelming
control over the other, so it falls to Israel to
end the oppression of Palestinians. This is
the beginning of a long bumpy road to peace.

All about choices. If Hamas sees the future this way who are we to say otherwise - except all the civilians killed by their stupidity perhaps.

 

[Revoltingest]

All about choices. If Hamas sees the future this way who are we to say otherwise - except all the civilians killed by their stupidity perhaps.

Hamas is in no position to initiate a solution.
Israel is dedicated to its eradication, & will kill
or displace many thousands of innocent Palestinians
in the process. So even if there were no more Hamas,
another violent group would arise in its place.
So the onus is on Israel to end the brutal oppression.
There is no other solution.
Alas, the "Jewish State" & its fervent apologists
cannot see this.....yet.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Hamas is in no position to initiate a solution.
Israel is dedicated to its eradication, & will kill
or displace many thousands of innocent Palestinians
in the process. So even if there were no more Hamas,
another violent group would arise in its place.
So the onus is on Israel to end the brutal oppression.
There is no other solution.
Alas, the "Jewish State" & its fervent apologists
cannot see this.....yet.

Not going to happen until many change their hatred towards Israel though is it?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Hamas is in no position to initiate a solution.
Israel is dedicated to its eradication, & will kill
or displace many thousands of innocent Palestinians
in the process. So even if there were no more Hamas,
another violent group would arise in its place.
So the onus is on Israel to end the brutal oppression.
There is no other solution.
Alas, the "Jewish State" & its fervent apologists
cannot see this.....yet.

Agreed. Haters gonna hate.
In this case though, it befalls on Israel to stop giving them reasons to hate.

Not that I support Hamas off course.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that in this conflict, there are no "good" guys.
It's like a white racist fighting against a black racist.
Both are racists. Both are bad.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Not going to happen until many change their hatred towards Israel though is it?

Which is not going to happen until Israel stops giving them reasons to hate.

And round and round the merry goes.

This is exactly the reason why this conflict just keeps going and going.
They are stuck in an infinite loop.

Nothing is going to change until one side breaks this loop.
And as @Revoltingest rightly stated, Israel is the side here which actually has the power and opportunity to break out of this loop.

Some people will say that that isn't "fair". Nothing is fair in this conflict. It's not about what is "fair". It's simply about ending it.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Which is not going to happen until Israel stops giving them reasons to hate.

And round and round the merry goes.

This is exactly the reason why this conflict just keeps going and going.
They are stuck in an infinite loop.

Nothing is going to change until one side breaks this loop.
And as @Revoltingest rightly stated, Israel is the side here which actually has the power and opportunity to break out of this loop.

Some people will say that that isn't "fair". Nothing is fair in this conflict. It's not about what is "fair". It's simply about ending it.

I doubt that they have such power.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not going to happen until many change their hatred towards Israel though is it?

Do you see any actions by Israel that inspired
the historical & current violence?
Or is the path to peace solely the responsibility
of Palestinians?