"Her penis" - not at all Orwellian - argh

[Colt]

Perhaps it shows us that there are some sports that do not need to be segregated by sex at all.

I mean, I can whip my husband's backside in a game of billiards pretty easily. I'm four inches shorter than him and weigh about 70 pounds less than he does.

Some dont I guess but we are having to address things that were unthinkable for the last 1,000,000 years or so.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Some dont I guess but we are having to address things that were unthinkable for the last 1,000,000 years or so.

Lots of things were unthinkable in the distant past. Like slavery being abolished. Like women and minorities having civil rights. Like the Catholic Church not running the world.
What's your point? That everything should stay the same for millennia? Is it really that society shattering to change dart competitions from segregated to co-ed? Come on man.

My dear old grandpa always used to say, "The only thing that stays the same is that things are always changing."

 

[icehorse]

I know that several posters have already thoroughly addressed this with you. I've nothing to add.

They have all danced around my specific request, none have addressed it accurately.

For example, I've heard several times that "they couldn't use control groups in this case" or "they did a kind of similar analysis X".

But none have offered any evidence for a study that would provide high quality data. As I stated in a recent thread, all the the pro-GAC studies have been assessed, and the evidence is consistently of very low quality. Citations have been provided, your cohort has been silent or evasive.

Kid's lives are at stake here. I guess it shouldn't be surprising that you can't be asked to to provide a link.

As a show of good faith, here's the thread that discusses this issue:

The evidence supporting "gender affirming care" is of very low reliability

 

[McBell]

How many girls' dreams is it okay to shatter - in your opinion? What I'm inferring from your questions here - correct me if I'm wrong - is that you think it's more important to empower trans women than it is to empower women?

That's textbook intersectionality theory - ugh.

What are you going on about?

Oh.
I get it.
It is not a big problem like you claimed so now you are trying to divert from that fact.

 

[SkepticThinker]

They have all danced around my specific request, none have addressed it accurately.

For example, I've heard several times that "they couldn't use control groups in this case" or "they did a kind of similar analysis X".

But none have offered any evidence for a study that would provide high quality data. As I stated in a recent thread, all the the pro-GAC studies have been assessed, and the evidence is consistently of very low quality. Citations have been provided, your cohort has been silent or evasive.

Kid's lives are at stake here. I guess it shouldn't be surprising that you can't be asked to to provide a link.

As a show of good faith, here's the thread that discusses this issue:

The evidence supporting "gender affirming care" is of very low reliability

I don't think this is an accurate assessment of how those conversations went done.

 

[McBell]

They have all danced around my specific request, none have addressed it accurately.

For example, I've heard several times that "they couldn't use control groups in this case" or "they did a kind of similar analysis X".

But none have offered any evidence for a study that would provide high quality data. As I stated in a recent thread, all the the pro-GAC studies have been assessed, and the evidence is consistently of very low quality. Citations have been provided, your cohort has been silent or evasive.

Kid's lives are at stake here. I guess it shouldn't be surprising that you can't be asked to to provide a link.

As a show of good faith, here's the thread that discusses this issue:

The evidence supporting "gender affirming care" is of very low reliability

You flat out ignored the article I presented that showed your "no control groups" claim is nothing but a huge steaming pile of bovine feces.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So again: Where are studies that compare the efficacy of GAC drugs / surgeries against the efficacy of talk therapy only?

You dismissed them with a wave of your "trans activist" wand.

 

[icehorse]

What are you going on about?

Oh.
I get it.
It is not a big problem like you claimed so now you are trying to divert from that fact.

I'm not "diverting" anything. As is common in these threads, side discussions arise. I'm simply addressing a side topic, ffs.

 

[icehorse]

@SkepticThinker , @McBell , @Shadow Wolf -

I will take another look if any of you can be asked to provide a link.

Seems only fair given how frequently I'm asked for links, and given that I just provided a long list of links.

thanks

 

[McBell]

I'm not "diverting" anything. As is common in these threads, side discussions arise. I'm simply addressing a side topic, ffs.

You made the claim that it is a big problem.
And instead of showing how it is a big problem you attempt to divert attention from the fact it is not a big problem like you claimed.
So yes, you are in fact diverting.
It just so happens to be a side topic you are diverting.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

@SkepticThinker , @McBell , @Shadow Wolf -

I will take another look if any of you can be asked to provide a link.

Seems only fair given how frequently I'm asked for links, and given that I just provided a long list of links.

thanks

Promise not to let your ignorance of research methods stand in the way?

 

[icehorse]

You made the claim that it is a big problem.
And instead of showing how it is a big problem you attempt to divert attention from the fact it is not a big problem like you claimed.
So yes, you are in fact diverting.
It just so happens to be a side topic you are diverting.

I'll stand by my claim that it's a big problem. Because it goes beyond the girls and women who have been directly affected. It also discourages countless other girls and women from even trying in the first place.

For example Lia "William" Thomas is a famous trans woman swimmer. While "only" a few dozen female's careers have been directed undermined by this person, their fame is large and is discouraging to female athletes everywhere.

And I'll ask again. Even if we disregard the fame issue, in your opinion, how many female athletes do you think we should throw under the bus as a show of solidarity(?) for William Thomas?

 

[icehorse]

Promise not to let your ignorance of research methods stand in the way?

I will agree that you have offered some of your opinions concerning the use of control groups. However, you have not yet coherently explained these opinions of yours. Try harder, this is an important topic.

thanks.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

It's a fairly common practice throughout history for reactions against social progression to be cloaked in this kind of language.

Please define “social progression”. This is an open request to any of you here who think GAC is part of social progress.

 

[John53]

I'll stand by my claim that it's a big problem. Because it goes beyond the girls and women who have been directly affected. It also discourages countless other girls and women from even trying in the first place.

For example Lia "William" Thomas is a famous trans woman swimmer. While "only" a few dozen female's careers have been directed undermined by this person, their fame is large and is discouraging to female athletes everywhere.

And I'll ask again. Even if we disregard the fame issue, in your opinion, how many female athletes do you think we should throw under the bus as a show of solidarity(?) for William Thomas?

If it is such a big problem I'm sure I would be hearing about it from the athletes. When there was a claim of drug cheating by Russian, East German and Chinese swimmers there were numerous athletes coming out and complaining about it. I don't recall seeing any athletes complaining about this.

 

[InChrist]

Do you care about truth and reality or do you care about what your faith says is truth and reality?

Do you know the truth and reality of what a trans person has to go through both social and psychologically?

I do care. Most trans individuals also suffer from various other mental and/or emotional issues; autism, eating disorders, phobias, or others. That’s why I think it’s more helpful for them to have real help in dealing with their situation in a wholistic way and helping them become comfortable in their biological body, rather than shoving them through transitioning with life altering drugs or surgeries.

 

[John53]

I do care. Most trans individuals also suffer from various other mental and/or emotional issues; autism, eating disorders, phobias, or others. That’s why I think it’s more helpful for them to have real help in dealing with their situation in a wholistic way and helping them become comfortable in their biological body, rather than shoving them through transitioning with life altering drugs or surgeries.

Who's is shoving them through life altering drugs or surgeries?

 

[InChrist]

Who's is shoving them through life altering drugs or surgeries?

Haven’t you kept up on the lawsuits against medical clinics, physicians, and others happening by those who claim as young people they were pushed to get on puberty blockers, then have life altering surgeries, without knowing the future consequences or without having any of their other medical or psychological problems addressed?



“Well, a growing number of detransitioner lawsuits are going to test these claims and practices.

Isabelle Ayala was 14 years old when she was committed to a hospital for suicidal thoughts. She met with a doctor, who she says claimed she met the criteria “to consider hormonal transition.” In a lawsuit filed by the law firm of Campbell Miller Payne PLLC, which is specializing in representing detransitioners, Ayala, now 20, says that instead of addressing her mental health needs, she was taken down a path of “gender-affirming medicalization.” She is suing her doctors and the American Academy of Pediatrics. “

Matthews: Here come the gender-detransitioner lawsuits

Nearly half of the states have passed legislation restricting or banning what’s referred to as “gender-affirming care” for minors. Most of those laws have been challenged in court, with s…

thehill.com

The complaint insisted the most very basic "components of psychotherapy for young adolescent girls" were not even discussed and argued this amounted to a failure to obtain informed consent.

"Chloe was the victim of Defendants who did not have any interest in taking the time necessary to sit with her and perform the regular, weekly psychotherapy that Chloe needed. Defendants grossly breached the standard of care by pushing Chloe into this harmful experimental treatment regimen without a proper period of psychological evaluation, without evaluating and treating her serious co-morbidities, without providing informed consent, and while actively utilizing emotionally super-charged and false information to derail the rational decision-making process of Chloe and her parents," the complaint insisted. "Defendants were not 'caring' for Chloe, they were experimenting on her, and doing so all to their own great financial benefit."

'Detransitioner' sues doctors after being given irreversible gender treatments as child

A well-known detransitioner alleges doctors "blindly" pushed her through the gender transition process without first obtaining proper informed consent.

wlos.com

 

[John53]

Haven’t you kept up on the lawsuits against medical clinics, physicians, and others happening by those who claim as young people they were pushed to get on puberty blockers, then have life altering surgeries, without knowing the future consequences or without having any of their other medical or psychological problems addressed?



“Well, a growing number of detransitioner lawsuits are going to test these claims and practices.

Isabelle Ayala was 14 years old when she was committed to a hospital for suicidal thoughts. She met with a doctor, who she says claimed she met the criteria “to consider hormonal transition.” In a lawsuit filed by the law firm of Campbell Miller Payne PLLC, which is specializing in representing detransitioners, Ayala, now 20, says that instead of addressing her mental health needs, she was taken down a path of “gender-affirming medicalization.” She is suing her doctors and the American Academy of Pediatrics. “

Matthews: Here come the gender-detransitioner lawsuits

Nearly half of the states have passed legislation restricting or banning what’s referred to as “gender-affirming care” for minors. Most of those laws have been challenged in court, with s…

thehill.com

The complaint insisted the most very basic "components of psychotherapy for young adolescent girls" were not even discussed and argued this amounted to a failure to obtain informed consent.

"Chloe was the victim of Defendants who did not have any interest in taking the time necessary to sit with her and perform the regular, weekly psychotherapy that Chloe needed. Defendants grossly breached the standard of care by pushing Chloe into this harmful experimental treatment regimen without a proper period of psychological evaluation, without evaluating and treating her serious co-morbidities, without providing informed consent, and while actively utilizing emotionally super-charged and false information to derail the rational decision-making process of Chloe and her parents," the complaint insisted. "Defendants were not 'caring' for Chloe, they were experimenting on her, and doing so all to their own great financial benefit."

'Detransitioner' sues doctors after being given irreversible gender treatments as child

A well-known detransitioner alleges doctors "blindly" pushed her through the gender transition process without first obtaining proper informed consent.

wlos.com

No I haven't kept update with them. How many of these lawsuits are there?

 

[icehorse]

If it is such a big problem I'm sure I would be hearing about it from the athletes. When there was a claim of drug cheating by Russian, East German and Chinese swimmers there were numerous athletes coming out and complaining about it. I don't recall seeing any athletes complaining about this.

Maybe female athletes are better behaved than you're giving them credit for?

List of Female Athletes by Sport | She Won

This is a link to a website that's keeping track of the hundreds and hundreds of women / girl athletes who have recently lost to trans women.