Holes in the trinity

[savagewind]

Whether or not one believes in the Trinity or other doctrines, has little bearing on anything. Heaven will be filled with prostitutes, sinners, Mormons, Jews, Catholics and all manner of those who trust in Christ, regardless of their religion. God will judge them by their works, namely, by their love for Jesus' brethren, not by what they think they know.

I trust it is true that salvation is not dependant on that doctrine a person adhers to or not.

You say they will be judged by the love they show to Jesus' brethren. Then what does it mean that they do not know they had done good to Jesus through those? Matthew 25:37-39
…37"Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'…

 

[savagewind]

Going back to the trinity. Someone on another thread said John 1:1 and John 1:14 are proof Jesus is God.

What does John 1:14 say?

And the word became flesh and dwelt among us and we discern the glory of (him) a glory of an only begotten with a father full of grace and truth.

The man Jesus was born from Israel. Israel was the nation on Earth that God SPOKE (logos) to and the words that God spoke to Israel became the man Jesus. So the pronoun him is a mistake. It means through Jesus the writer now can recognize the glory that was Israel which did not seem like glory until the LAW was manifest in JESUS.

I know it is myself I am talking to. I don't care anymore, in case I ever did.

 

[Walkntune]

Going back to the trinity. Someone on another thread said John 1:1 and John 1:14 are proof Jesus is God.

What does John 1:14 say?

And the word became flesh and dwelt among us and we discern the glory of (him) a glory of an only begotten with a father full of grace and truth.

The man Jesus was born from Israel. Israel was the nation on Earth that God SPOKE (logos) to and the words that God spoke to Israel became the man Jesus. So the pronoun him is a mistake. It means through Jesus the writer now can recognize the glory that was Israel which did not seem like glory until the LAW was manifest in JESUS.

I know it is myself I am talking to. I don't care anymore, in case I ever did.

You cannot know who Christ is by your own perspective of the scriptures. Jesus asked Peter who he was and Peter said you are the Christ. Jesus replied flesh and bones did not reveal this to you but my father who is in heaven.You can only know Christ and the scriptures by revelation and never from the point of view of man. The Bible is a book revealing who God is from the perspective of Gods perspective to us and not revealing who God is from the point of view our perspective. Only the Spirit can reveal the truth of the Word of God(written or in the flesh).

 

[Walkntune]

Whether or not one beieves in the Trinity or other doctrines, has little bearing on anything. Heaven will be filled with prostitutes, sinners, Mormons, Jews, Catholics and all manner of those who trust in Christ, regardless of their religion. God will judge them by their works, namely, by their love for Jesus' brethren, not by what they think they know.

There is only one church and it is the body of Christ which is all inclusive. All other churches are just exclusive membership clubs.When someone asks me where I go to church I ask them when am I not in church?

 

[savagewind]

You cannot know who Christ is by your own perspective of the scriptures. Jesus asked Peter who he was and Peter said you are the Christ. Jesus replied flesh and bones did not reveal this to you but my father who is in heaven.You can only know Christ and the scriptures by revelation and never from the point of view of man. The Bible is a book revealing who God is from the perspective of Gods perspective to us and not revealing who God is from the point of view our perspective. Only the Spirit can reveal the truth of the Word of God(written or in the flesh).

Is it possible for you to stay on topic? What are you talking about? What you said is fine and I agree except for the word "your" because it sounds like you are talking to me, which is fine, but it means you too, so the correct word is "our". Say it without a quote of mine. Why not? Please do not add my quote if you are not commenting about my quote which you are not but I'm quite sure someone will disagree.

So say what you will but don't make it seems like a discussion with me. OK! Thanks.

 

[savagewind]

There is only one church and it is the body of Christ which is all inclusive. All other churches are just exclusive membership clubs.When someone asks me where I go to church I ask them when am I not in church?

LOL A good reply!

 

[Walkntune]

Is it possible for you to stay on topic? What are you talking about? What you said is fine and I agree except for the word "your" because it sounds like you are talking to me, which is fine, but it means you too, so the correct word is "our". Say it without a quote of mine. Why not? Please do not add my quote if you are not commenting about my quote which you are not but I'm quite sure someone will disagree.

So say what you will but don't make it seems like a discussion with me. OK! Thanks.

Sorry. Dont mean you specifically. Anyone can put themselves in place of you.

 

[savagewind]

Sorry. Dont mean you specifically. Anyone can put themselves in place of you.

OK Thank you. You must remember my paranoid side. I'm kidding. You will forget and I will forgive you.

 

[Walkntune]

OK Thank you. You must remember my paranoid side. I'm kidding. You will forget and I will forgive you.

Jesus says depart from me for I never knew 'you'! Please dont take the' you 'so personal! LOL

 

[dawny0826]

You say Jesus is God. But Jesus is God's son. Do you believe in the trinity that God and Jesus is one and that Jesus is God's son? How? The definition of son is someone born to or adopted. That means a beginning. Do you believe God has a beginning?

Hi savagewind.

As a preface, I won't debate the trinity as it's the central focus of my faith. I'm happy to answer questions, if you have any, regarding my interpretation and how it's applied to my faith walk.

I respect those who do not accept the concept of the Trinity and as a Christian, I prefer to cherish and celebrate the commonalities shared with others of like faith.

The trinity as it's applied to my life is as follows:

God is one almighty God, without limits, who always was and always will be, who came to us as Jesus Christ - in the flesh - to show us, by his own example, how we are to live for him, commune with him and abandon the desires of the flesh to repent and follow him. Through his death and resurrection, we are able to receive God's Holy Sprit, our internal guide and friend who never leaves us.

One GOD who was and is, father, son and holy spirit.

 

[Athan]

These are fruits of the Spirit. They come by walking by the spirit, not commandments.

Actually the Spirit attends those who keep God's commandments.

 

[savagewind]

Thank you dawny0826.

I have thought of another idea.

There is a big difference between something being in something and the something being something.

A house is something. If no one lives in the house it is just a house.
A dead body is a house nobody lives in.

A body is a house for the person while the person is alive. Just as a house and those who live in it are not the same thing a body and the person who is the body is not the same thing.

Jesus is the body that God was pleased to dwell in. The body and He who dwells in it are not the same just as a house and it's occupants are not the same.

 

[savagewind]

Actually the Spirit attends those who keep God's commandments.

Hm. Interesting. Then how is it possible for sins to be forgiven? Who does the forgiving?

 

[savagewind]

Athan if you have answered my question about which commandments prove God's love for a person then please point me to the post. If not, then please answer the question.

 

[dawny0826]

Thank you dawny0826.

I have thought of another idea.

There is a big difference between something being in something and the something being something.

A house is something. If no one lives in the house it is just a house.
A dead body is a house nobody lives in.

A body is a house for the person while the person is alive. Just as a house and those who live in it are not the same thing a body and the person who is the body is not the same thing.

Jesus is the body that God was pleased to dwell in. The body and He who dwells in it are not the same just as a house and it's occupants are not the same.

I respect your thoughts and understand why you feel as you do.

But, I view God in a different light. I view God as having NO boundaries and having infinite capabilities, meaning that I accept the concept of God existing as multiple manifestions simultaneously.

In example, Christ was a manifestation of God, in flesh. He was flesh but he was no less a manifestation of God. And the Holy Spirit can dwell within each of us - no less God, but, still able to commune and connect with us, individually.

 

[savagewind]

I respect your thoughts and understand why you feel as you do.

But, I view God in a different light. I view God as having NO boundaries and having infinite capabilities, meaning that I accept the concept of God existing as multiple manifestions simultaneously.

In example, Christ was a manifestation of God, in flesh. He was flesh but he was no less a manifestation of God. And the Holy Spirit can dwell within each of us - no less God, but, still able to commune and connect with us, individually.

LOL. You are debating. Now I feel free to do so too. It is ok.

I believe Jesus is a manifestation of God's words not of the Person of God. If that is right then to believe Jesus is God is the same as holding God's words against Him if any should fail.

 

[Athan]

We live for the will of God because we love God. We know God because Christ Jesus taught us well. That is all my opinion.

My opinion is that we love God because we keep His commandments.

You have not yet answered what commandments you are referring to.

Let's take me for example. I endeavor to read scriptures, pray always lest I enter into temptation, attend church and partake of the sacrament and be a good husband and father. I try to do these things every day and every week. what do you do?

True and not so true. Anytime at all a person may have faith hope and God's charity. Keeping God's command means we share that with whomever we shall meet.

I agree. And if we don't do these things, then we are not saved.

OK. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Just please know it is just an opinion.

Yes, and please, know that your thoughts are also just opinions.

 

[Athan]

Hm. Interesting. Then how is it possible for sins to be forgiven? Who does the forgiving?

God forgives.

 

[savagewind]

how is it possible for sins to be forgiven? Who does the forgiving?

God forgives.

the Spirit attends those who keep God's commandments.

I hear you saying God's Spirit forgives but The Spirit only attends to those who are obeying God's commandments. A sin means disobeying so according to you when a person disobeya a command there is no Spirit attending him. If there is no Spirit attending him, how is he forgiven?

 

[Athan]

There are some you refuse to follow.

So which ones do you refuse to follow?

No one can follow them all every time.

I never said you had to, and I gave you an example of my take on following commandments. How do you follow God's commandments?

Does it mean no one loves God? According to you it seems to mean it.

Not when you stop and take a moment to think about God's will. I mentioned once before that we do our best to follow His commandments, and He makes up for the rest.