Homosexual adoption - Abomination or not?

[Alceste]

I can see how other kids might make fun of the children with 2 mothers or 2 fathers. How kids feel about this themselves is important too. If I was going to make any argument beforehand I would want to see a meta-analysys done on this. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. The kids come first, though. I wouldn't accept an argument along the lines, 'We should be allowed to have kids too, regardless of the psychogical problems and social abuse the children are at risk for'.

If teasing or bullying is a valid reason gays shouldn't be allowed to have children, heterosexual parents shouldn't be allowed to have buck tooth, knock-kneed, overweight, intelligent, clumsy or otherwise unusual children.

Anyway, the research had been done. Children of homosexuals are indistinguishable from children of heterosexuals as far as science is concerned.

 

[tumbleweed41]

If a man can marry a man then surely a man can marry a dog or even a cat.

It's virtually the same.

That you see the marriage of two consenting adults as being equal to zoophilia reveals your homophobic attitude and an irrational attitude towards same sex couples and their children.

 

[839311]

Anyway, the research had been done. Children of homosexuals are indistinguishable from children of heterosexuals as far as science is concerned.

Got any sources handy? Id like to see the results.

 

[Draka]

But like I have said many times, if a gay couple wants a child they can go out and produce one easily enough.

And as has been pointed out to you, that inane argument can be applied towards heterosexuals too. You seem to fail to get my point entirely. It's called the desire to help a child that already exists. One that already lives and needs a home, a family. It's not just about some desire to have a child, it's the desire to take in one which is already out there and needs a loving home.

It is not really about the parents' desires but what is considered to be a good environment for a child to be brought up in. A system of homosexual adoptive parents is hardly normal or natural and this must be very confusing for a child to deal with especially around puberty.

Being bumped around to different foster homes, some possibly abusive as well, and being a ward of the state is actually preferable to being raised by two moms to you? You think being unloved with no real home or family is more "normal" and "natural" than having two stable parents that love and care for them? And what about puberty would make anything confusing? Are you referring to not having a parent of the same gender to help you through it? Because then you must advocate against single moms having sons and single dads having daughters. People have been getting through it just fine.

That may be true but a child should relate to his parents the most. A gay man or woman however good their intentions may be will most likely have their own viewpoint of the world and its gender roles and cannot possibly fail to impart these onto the child.

Hmm, really? Should heterosexuals who have issues with homosexuality then be prevented from having or adopting children for fear of the child being homosexual? Because how could the child relate? :sarcastic Heterosexuals have been raising functioning and adjusted homosexuals since the dawn of humanity, that you think it impossible for homosexuals to raise little hetero children is ridiculous.

Perhaps not but they are the natural choice. One learns just as much from negative behaviour as from positive -for example if your dad comes home and berates you for not standing up for yourself that is a good learning experience.

What on earth does that have to do with the price of potatoes in Japan? Are you trying to say that an abusive or cruel heterosexual parent is better than a loving homosexual one?

They may love the child but their orientation will affect the care and love they give. It is not natural - it is like making your pet dog vegetarian because you do not eat meat yourself.

This last part here is the most absurd thing yet. First off, how do you figure their orientation will have any affect on the care and love they provide to a child? There is absolutely no basis for that assumption whatsoever. Secondly, the statement about the vegetarian dog is utterly ridiculous. Are you trying to insinuate that homosexual parents will force their children to be homosexuals?

 

[tumbleweed41]

A 19 year old university student speaks about his family and growing up with "two moms".

[youtube]yMLZO-sObzQ[/youtube]
Zach Wahls Speaks About Family - YouTube


This young man is a shining example of how two loving parents, no matter the sexual orientation, can raise an upstanding and well balanced child.

 

[Alceste]

Got any sources handy? Id like to see the results.

First, a claim to be "very interested" in research. Then, a total unwillingness to google the research and a request that I provide the research for you.

Are you interested or not? If you are interested, Google Scholar is only a few keystrokes away. If you ARE interested in the research, here is a word of advice: when you ask people to bring research to you on a silver platter, you are basically inviting them to cherry pick research that affirms their argument while ignoring research that calls it into question. Of course I would never do such a thing. In this case you're lucky, since I am an honest person, but in the future you may want to look things up yourself.

I am completely confident that the vast majority of the research you find in a search of google scholar will affirm my claim, because I have looked. I posted an example pages ago. Here is another example specific to your request for a "meta-analysis" (incidentally, this is the very first hit on Google Scholar).

Courts determine custody and visitation on the basis of the "best interests of the child." Current judicial rulings in some jurisdictions reflect a bias against awarding custody or granting visitation rights to homosexual parents, favoring the heterosexual parent or heterosexual relative of the child(ren). Should the sexual orientation of the parent play a part in the determination of custody or visitation in order to protect the child? This meta-analysis summarizes the available quantitative literature comparing the impact of heterosexual and homosexual parents, using a variety of measures, on the child(ren). The analyses examine parenting practices, the emotional well-being of the child, and the sexual orientation of the child. The results demonstrate no differences on any measures between the heterosexual and homosexual parents regarding parenting styles, emotional adjustment, and sexual orientation of the child(ren). In other words, the data fail to support the continuation of a bias against homosexual parents by any court. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2010 APA, all rights reserved)

http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1997-08129-002

 

[Father Heathen]

If a man can marry a man then surely a man can marry a dog or even a cat.

It's virtually the same.

How many times do you imagine that retarded analogy has been presented and then crushed on this forum?
Animals can't understand the concept of marriage, much less consent to it. They're not sapient beings.
You're among intelligent people here, therefore you should consider using intelligent arguments.

 

[Father Heathen]

ok, yes, I admit that marrying one's dog or cat was meant to be a joke but really the line must be drawn somewhere.

The line is drawn at consenting adults.

That was easy.

 

[Father Heathen]

I can see how other kids might make fun of the children with 2 mothers or 2 fathers. How kids feel about this themselves is important too. If I was going to make any argument beforehand I would want to see a meta-analysys done on this. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. The kids come first, though. I wouldn't accept an argument along the lines, 'We should be allowed to have kids too, regardless of the psychogical problems and social abuse the children are at risk for'.

That's a problem with society rather than with the parents. And what about interracial parents? Should they too be forbidden from having children to avoid potential bullying from racist kids? We should regard and respond to homophobia the same way we do racism.

 

[Draka]

That's a problem with society rather than with the parents. And what about interracial parents? Should they too be forbidden from having children to avoid potential bullying from racist kids? We should regard and respond to homophobia the same way we do racism.

More often than not, it's the parents of the bully that are the problem as they instill their own homophobic and racist ideals into their children. Parents that teach their children to hate as they do. Perhaps the better argument would be to forbid heterosexual homophobics and racists from having children?

 

[Quiddity]

I was merely pointing out the fact that you did not actually answer the question.
One has to assume your answer.

Hell no I am not expecting you to actually answer the question.
If you were going to, you would have.

I know your reading comprehension is far superior then your everyday theist so you are either willfully being ignorant or your looking for validation of your preconceived notions. I don't know which, but I'll consider this my last attempt.

The question asked was:

So you're saying that although you concede that the professional studies may be right, you still object because you don't find it emotionally palatable?

To which I answered:

This may be hard for you to grasp but I have no emotions over this. I know many catholics and christians that do, but I don't. You can almost say I was raised by a gay man.

In short, I'm saying......"no it's not because I don't find it emotionally palatable". He could have come back and asked "Then why?"......but he didn't. The fact he chose to phrase the question as something to do with emotion is typical regurgitating babble thrown at theist (dare I say Abrahamaic faiths?).

I'm only going to take it as far as your preconceived notions don't take you. Hence, the lack of further explanation. Even though the question didn't necessarily demand one.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

That's a problem with society rather than with the parents. And what about interracial parents? Should they too be forbidden from having children to avoid potential bullying from racist kids? We should regard and respond to homophobia the same way we do racism.

Yeah, remember that it was only as far back as 1967 that interracial marriage was considered an abomination.

Loving v. Virginia

[youtube]xQWrasoNS24[/youtube]
"Summer of Loving" - Roy Zimmerman - YouTube

 

[Father Heathen]

More often than not, it's the parents of the bully that are the problem as they instill their own homophobic and racist ideals into their children. Parents that teach their children to hate as they do. Perhaps the better argument would be to forbid heterosexual homophobics and racists from having children?

Well, I've always thought that requiring breeding licences sounded like a splendid idea.

 

[Father Heathen]

I know your reading comprehension is far superior then your everyday theist so you are either willfully being ignorant or your looking for validation of your preconceived notions. I don't know which, but I'll consider this my last attempt.

The question asked was:

To which I answered:


In short, I'm saying......"no it's not because I don't find it emotionally palatable". He could have come back and asked "Then why?"......but he didn't. The fact he chose to phrase the question as something to do with emotion is typical regurgitating babble thrown at theist (dare I say Abrahamaic faiths?).

I'm only going to take it as far as your preconceived notions don't take you. Hence, the lack of further explanation. Even though the question didn't necessarily demand one.

Okay.

Then why?

 

[Alceste]

How many times do you imagine that retarded analogy has been presented and then crushed on this forum?
Animals can't understand the concept of marriage, much less consent to it. They're not sapient beings.
You're among intelligent people here, therefore you should consider using intelligent arguments.

Perhaps nmartin can't tell the difference between himself and a dog.

 

[Me Myself]

i can see how other kids might make fun of the children with 2 mothers or 2 fathers. How kids feel about this themselves is important too. If i was going to make any argument beforehand i would want to see a meta-analysys done on this. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. The kids come first, though. I wouldn't accept an argument along the lines, 'we should be allowed to have kids too, regardless of the psychogical problems and social abuse the children are at risk for'.

that's a problem with society rather than with the parents. and what about interracial parents? Should they too be forbidden from having children to avoid potential bullying from racist kids? we should regard and respond to homophobia the same way we do racism.

Quote For Truth

 

[839311]

That's a problem with society rather than with the parents.

Regardless, if the children end up growing up as outcasts among their peers and experience a wide range of abuse then I wouldn't want a child of mine to be adopted by lgbt parents. Fortunately, from what Ive read, most of the research seems to support more or less normal development of kids with lgbt parents.

I agree that its a problem with society too, and its unacceptable. Personally Ive noticed positive changes in the country Im living in with the level of acceptance and tolerance for the lgbt community.

 

[Alceste]

Regardless, if the children end up growing up as outcasts among their peers and experience a wide range of abuse then I wouldn't want a child of mine to be adopted by lgbt parents.

I would want a child of mine adopted by loving, competent parents. I wouldn't particularly care about any other consideration. While there is no difference between children of gay and straight parents, there is a HUGE difference between children of incompetent and competent parents.

As a child of heterosexual parents who was bullied and ostracized as a child (too keen on learning stuff, probably), I think fear of social consequences is a very silly reason to be worried about same sex parents. Children bully misfits for ALL KINDS of reasons. Trying to prevent minorities from starting families is a foolish way to try to prevent bullying. All you would get for your trouble is less diversity, and consequently more bullying. The more homogeneous the majority of kids are, the more the misfits stand out, and the greater any perceived differences will loom in their vicious little minds.

Kids need to learn to celebrate diversity to function in a multi-cultural society. They should not be sheltered from people who are different, and we should not try to protect them from being different themselves.

Fortunately, from what Ive read, most of the research seems to support more or less normal development of kids with lgbt parents.

I agree that its a problem with society too, and its unacceptable. Personally Ive noticed positive changes in the country Im living in with the level of acceptance and tolerance for the lgbt community.

I'm very happy to see the changes in my country. We've already won equal marriage rights for same sex couples. It's only a matter of time before we eradicate gender-based discrimination in the adoption process.

 

[839311]

It's only a matter of time before we eradicate gender-based discrimination in the adoption process.

You seem to think that it only has to do with discrimination. Don't you think that many people oppose same-sex adoption because they are genuinly concerned for the health of the child?

 

[Me Myself]

You seem to think that it only has to do with discrimination. Don't you think that many people oppose same-sex adoption because they are genuinly concerned for the health of the child?

You have a point.

Ignorance is another reason for opposing adoption by gay partners.