Homosexuality

[Sand Dancer]

Not just Christians, but also in cowboy culture, macho male culture, and overwhelming in another major faith on this planet.

And redneck culture.

 

[Sand Dancer]

If you are looking for a straight answer,

Pun intended?

 

[Sand Dancer]

In Judaism the main sin of Sodom was inhospitality and general lawlessness. This is why Lot is contrasted with them as, even though he's not seen as a great guy, he's known for being hospitable.

His daughters found him hospitable as well. Doh!

 

[InChrist]

Would you like it if you were forsaken by your loved one and friends because of your sins? What if you were legally discriminated against solely based on your sins? What you were denied medical care, health insurance, renting or buying a home, adopting a child, and you were denied service in a public business based solely on your sins? I don't know where you live, but I live in the United States of America. I live in a nation that's supposedly founded on freedom, liberty and justice for all. The basic philosophy behind the United States is that all people are created equal, and entitled to basic human rights. In spite of what many Christians (and many other theists) believe, these basic human rights, as well as civil rights and equality, are extended to LGBT Americans.

Imagine if all these religious theists who oppose homosexuality were denied service in a normally public business, such as a bakery or a photographer, based solely on the fact that they are religious theists and nothing more. How would it make them feel?

Imagine these religious theists being denied medical care, medical procedures, home loans, house rentals, employment, insurance coverage, and adopting children. I doubt very seriously that they'd like being treated like lowlife second class citizens when they are constitutionally guaranteed freedom, liberty and justice. I imagine there would be a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

How would these religious theists feel if they were faced with the same social injustice and discrimination homosexuals have been fighting against for so long in this country? I imagine these theists would scream persecution if they were ever denied medical care or a home loan or employment or the right to adopt a child or denied service in a public business just because they're religious.

I seem to remember something about the United States of America being founded on freedom, liberty and justice for all. I wasn't aware that homosexual and other LGBT American citizens are to be left out of this equation because some disgruntled Christians, and other religious theists, don't personally and morally approve of the sexual orientation of LGBT American citizens.

Just imagine if the shoe was on the other foot.

"The injustice you allow against others will become others will become injustice that comes against you." - Leonard Peltier

True, the USA was founded on freedom and justice for all, so I agree no one should be discriminated against or be... “denied medical care, medical procedures, home loans, house rentals, employment...”, etc., as you’ve said. I think this guarantee of freedom from discrimination should also apply to the “sin” of being unvaccinated. But now it seems that many have the attitude that it’s okay to discriminate against those people.

I consider homosexuality wrong, as are many other behaviors the scriptures define as sinful and detrimental. While I would express my perspective, I would not cut off a relationship with a loved one or friend. I think the scriptures indicate the importance of speaking the truth in love. God is love and I believe His truth and wisdom is provided for the best interest of His creation, not only for this temporal life, but for eternity.

I appreciate the quote you shared
by Leonard Peltier...”the injustice you allow against others will become injustice that comes against you”.

So true, yet how easily people don’t think about this reality.

 

[Vinayaka]

And redneck culture.

Yep, and it can rear it's ugly head in lots of unexpected places. I'm undecided whether the seemingly decrease in homophobia is due to an actual shift in thinking, or just that the homophobes have become less vocal about it. I sure hope it's the former.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

True, the USA was founded on freedom and justice for all, so I agree no one should be discriminated against or be... “denied medical care, medical procedures, home loans, house rentals, employment...”, etc., as you’ve said. I think this guarantee of freedom from discrimination should also apply to the “sin” of being unvaccinated. But now it seems that many have the attitude that it’s okay to discriminate against those people.

Thank you for your reply, InChrist. I agree with you that the unvaccinated sr houldn't be discriminated against. My attitude towards the vaccines have changed since I tested positive for Covid, despite being fully vaccinated. My husband, our 16-year-old daughter, my nephew and his wife, my three great-nieces, my aunt, and a couple of my cousins all tested positive for Covid after being fully vaccinated, as well. A lady at my husband's church told him that she knows several people who tested positive for Covid and they're all fully vaccinated. I tested negative for Covid yesterday, but I feel sick and weak, and it's been three weeks since I tested positive.

I consider homosexuality wrong, as are many other behaviors the scriptures define as sinful and detrimental. While I would express my perspective, I would not cut off a relationship with a loved one or friend. I think the scriptures indicate the importance of speaking the truth in love. God is love and I believe His truth and wisdom is provided for the best interest of His creation, not only for this temporal life, but for eternity.

No offense, InChrist, but a god who does nothing to stop the senseless cold-blooded murder (gassed to death) of six million of his own chosen people is not a god of love. And please don't fall back onto blaming mankind or the devil for the abominable atrocity of the Holocaust. An estimated SIX MILLION Jews and another FIVE MILLION non-Jews were mercilessly killed by the Nazis. According to the Bible, God has infinite knowledge and power, meaning he had foreknowledge of the Holocaust, and he did nothing to stop it.

That's beyond cruel and sadistic. A divine god who has the ultimate power to stop the Holocaust, but decides not to stop it, is not a god of love and mercy. I could post an infinite list of examples of God's cruelty and apathy towards immeasurable human suffering, but I don't want to take the time right now. I will say, however, say as someone who was severely abused as a child, that your loving god did not save me from any of the abuse that was inflicted upon me for nearly 14 years. The abuse only stopped after I left home when I was 18. I prayed to God, I accepted Jesus as my savior, I faithfully went to church, I read the Bible, and your god left me in a hellhole of abuse for almost 14 years. You can tell me that your god is love until you're blue in the face, but I will never believe you.

I appreciate the quote you shared
by Leonard Peltier...”the injustice you allow against others will become injustice that comes against you”.

So true, yet how easily people don’t think about this reality.

Thanks. I'm glad you like the quote, and you're right about how easily people forget it.

 

[sojourner]

Nowadays, everyone accepts it as "the norm" then, then the norm desensitizes and then it gets put into the system as completely normal.

I have nothing against homosexuals, but in all the Abrahamic religions, it is forbidden. God detests it and their books testify to this fact.

So I guess it boils down to who do you want to please? Your creator or people

Except that the Bible doesn’t address homosexuality.

 

[Viker]

Could you find it in yourself to disown someone over this?

Never.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Except that the Bible doesn’t address homosexuality.

Actually it does, and it condemns homosexual acts. As for the attraction,it speaks on that too.

 

[Viker]

For me, if I can't totally support a family member or friend in this context then everything about that relationship comes into question.

I've never owned another human being, there's nothing to disown. I only love another or not.

 

[sojourner]

Actually it does, and it condemns homosexual acts. As for the attraction,it speaks on that too.

Nope. It never addresses orientation, since orientation wasn’t on the psychological radar at that time.

 

[Aštra’el]

I do not claim to be a “moral” person. “Right” and “wrong” have little meaning to me.

Would I disown someone for homosexuality? It depends on our relationship and whether or not their expression/ behavior/ lifestyle brings shame and dishonor down upon the entire family.

 

[InChrist]

Thank you for your reply, InChrist. I agree with you that the unvaccinated sr houldn't be discriminated against. My attitude towards the vaccines have changed since I tested positive for Covid, despite being fully vaccinated. My husband, our 16-year-old daughter, my nephew and his wife, my three great-nieces, my aunt, and a couple of my cousins all tested positive for Covid after being fully vaccinated, as well. A lady at my husband's church told him that she knows several people who tested positive for Covid and they're all fully vaccinated. I tested negative for Covid yesterday, but I feel sick and weak, and it's been three weeks since I tested positive.



No offense, InChrist, but a god who does nothing to stop the senseless cold-blooded murder (gassed to death) of six million of his own chosen people is not a god of love. And please don't fall back onto blaming mankind or the devil for the abominable atrocity of the Holocaust. An estimated SIX MILLION Jews and another FIVE MILLION non-Jews were mercilessly killed by the Nazis. According to the Bible, God has infinite knowledge and power, meaning he had foreknowledge of the Holocaust, and he did nothing to stop it. That's beyond cruel and sadistic. A divine god who has the ultimate power to stop the Holocaust, but decides not to stop it, is not a god of love and mercy. I could post an infinite list of examples of God's cruelty and apathy towards immeasurable human suffering, but I don't want to take the time right now. I will say, however, say as someone who was severely abused as a child, that your loving god didn't save me from any of the abuse that was inflicted upon me for nearly 14 years. The abuse only stopped after I left home when I was 18. I prayed to God, I accepted Jesus as my savior, I faithfully went to church, I read the Bible, and your god left me in a hellhole of abuse for almost 14 years. You can tell me that your god is love until you're blue in the face, but I will never believe you.



Thanks. I'm glad you like the quote, and you're right about how easily people forget it.

I am sorry to hear about all your relatives who have had Covid and that you are not feeling well. I’ve had it, so I can completely empathize. Thanks for sharing your experience and I certainly hope you get your energy back and feel completely well soon.

I won’t bother talking until I blue in the face attempting to convince you of God’s love. I do believe it, though, from my own experience. As far as the Holocaust goes; I lay the blame totally on Hitler who was deeply involved in the occult, inspired by, and filled with satanic hatred toward God’s chosen people and anyone he felt was inferior. Why did God allow this? Why not intervene in this awful situation and many others? Why doesn’t He rescue all the children being abused (like you when you were young) or those being trafficked and destroy the abusers? Those are valid questions and ones I’ve asked... but I don’t blame God. Instead, I have desired and asked to understand the big picture. I believe God gave humanity freedom because real love must involve freedom. Freedom to choose; right or wrong, good or evil, His love and wisdom or hate and ignorance. According to the scriptures, this freedom included dominion over the earth. Yet, rather than trusting God’s love, wisdom, and goodness, humans chose wrongly and continue to do so, which plays out in so many harmful ways. Therefore, this is a fallen world where bad things happen to anyone. It is also a temporary world because God will not let the evil and bad things people choose to do to each other go on for eternity. I am very thankful for that. So, why doesn’t God intervene and stop all the evil? I’d say first, because He will not impede human freewill and opportunity to choose. Freedom is a gift and being made in His image must include real freedom and authentic love; meaning it cannot be gored or robotic. Secondly, this world and life are not the ultimate goal or God’s priority for us. Eternal life is and the new heaven and earth which will be sin free... no more tears, suffering or death. This life is temporary, the test of our true attitudes, and the time to choose. Time is short; eternity isn’t. So that’s what matters.
Just my thoughts. I don’t expect to convince you or change your mind.

 

[firedragon]

I would disown the religion first.
I have two homosexual nieces. I interact with them as I would any other relative.
Their sexual orientation I don't consider it any of my business.

I don't think a religion should set itself up to divide families.

So since someones scripture is against homosexuality you leave the religion? Or leave religion altogether? Or end God himself?

This is a peripheral matter. Taking that and make it a composition of everything is fallacious. The scripture could be wrong, and God may exist still.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nope. It never addresses orientation, since orientation wasn’t on the psychological radar at that time.

When a man looks upon a woman with lust he has fornicated with her in his heart. Notice I did say attraction, not orientation.

 

[Daniel Nicholson]

Happy to see almost everyone posting here is using 21st century common sense.

If it is FOR ME, I would say, I would not be in that situation. I am very religious and I try to do by what my Creator wants. If you are sayin, that I was to be a homosexual and that happen. Well, I wouldn't be one.

Well, you could easily be in that position. Homosexuality isn't a choice, and you could have been born that way. Please educate yourself on this, it's a fact. You could choose not to act on your thoughts and desires. But why?
If there is a God, there is no way He would disapprove of his own creation.

I consider homosexuality wrong, as are many other behaviors the scriptures define as sinful and detrimental.

Again, it is not wrong. I think people have known this for a long time before empirical evidence proving it. It's a shame it has taken so long for (my local) society to realize that.

I do not claim to be a “moral” person. “Right” and “wrong” have little meaning to me.

Would I disown someone for homosexuality? It depends on our relationship and whether or not their expression/ behavior/ lifestyle brings shame and dishonor down upon the entire family.

What a heartless selfish statement. You would put others' opinions about your family before the wellbeing of your actual family member. I hope you find someone that you love unconditionally. If not your family, than maybe a partner or child.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nope. It never addresses orientation, since orientation wasn’t on the psychological radar at that time.

And also, the OT mentions only sexual relations of men, but Paul expands this and he does mention homosexual women (no, I don't remember the passage). He speaks of men and women foregoing "natural use" of their stuff and having relations with eachother instead.
Now, this was a commentary on behaviors he apparently observed in pagan temples, but there is just no wiggle room on this: the Bible condemns homosexuality as well as everyone who doesn't fall in line with male and female gender norms. And not just trans people. Even a cis-woman who wears her boyfriends shirt is guilty of wearing something that is a men's article of clothing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What a heartless selfish statement. You would put others' opinions about your family before the wellbeing of your actual family member. I hope you find someone that you love unconditionally. If not your family, than maybe a partner or child.

That is a wonderful statement.

 

[Father Heathen]

I do not claim to be a “moral” person. “Right” and “wrong” have little meaning to me.

Would I disown someone for homosexuality? It depends on our relationship and whether or not their expression/ behavior/ lifestyle brings shame and dishonor down upon the entire family.

How do you measure honor without some sort of moral code?

 

[Father Heathen]

True, the USA was founded on freedom and justice for all, so I agree no one should be discriminated against or be... “denied medical care, medical procedures, home loans, house rentals, employment...”, etc., as you’ve said. I think this guarantee of freedom from discrimination should also apply to the “sin” of being unvaccinated. But now it seems that many have the attitude that it’s okay to discriminate against those people.

The obvious difference is when someone's behavior places others at risk.