horrors of religion

[Sunstone]

"Selflessness" is something that has to wait for the brain to develop a bit before the child can display it.

 

[Riverwolf]

Adorable yes. But unselfish???????? All you have to do is watch two one year olds playing with one toy they both want to see pure selfishness in action.

You don't even need to see that. All you need is the knowledge that infants, toddlers, and young children cry when they want something.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

Selflessness almost always boils down to selfishness, someone told me once.
There have been tests done on the brain that shows doing good ultimately makes us feel better and that some altruistic people get a type of "high" from helping others. Thus, Mother Theresa was an addict!

 

[Oberon]

And with no concept of the "other", selfishness is the default position.

Absolutely. In fact, it is the only possible position.

 

[richardlowellt]

Scientology. lol

Now, I'd like to point out that 7 out of 10 Christians I've ever talked to accepted evolution as fact, if not a very likely theory, and denied young-earth creationism; every Jew I've ever talked to whose mentioned the subject of evolution accepts it. (I will admit, however, that the majority of Muslims I've talked to on this website denies evolution, but this is based on bias and misinformation, not stupidity or an inability to think logically; according to the information they use, evolution cannot logically exist. Blame their sources, not them themselves.)

By the way, there are WAY more than just three major world religions.

So because you have talked to 10 Christians and a few Jews you have your finger on the pulse of how Christians view evolution? 9 out of 10 that I have talked to refuse to accept any thoughts of evolution as it goes against their God creating all there is in that foolish 7 day span.

I will always blame the individual, they are ignorant, lacking knowledge and awareness, and if the are unable to think logically then they are stupid. With the overwhelming information available on the subject of evolution anyone saying that they are unaware, or lack knowledge, are by definition ignorant.

 

[richardlowellt]

Many do, as an atheist here has pointed out to me that the golden rule alone, and as Jesus worded, is not enough.



Prove it.

Dr. Janet Dorman a specialist in child brain development has observed in her 35 years of study that a newborn is functionally blind, deaf and INSENSATE ( totally unfeeling with a complete lack of sense or reason)

In the book by Dr. Jonah Lehrer, INSIDE THE BABY MIND he states, "newborns are bound totally by sensation, a bundle of reflexes that can only eat and cry, they are totally insensate with no compassion, sympathy, or any other feelings."

 

[richardlowellt]

Mythologies are STORIES in which gods play important roles.

Prove to me that all religions are based on such mythologies, as many aren't.

There are tons of Jews and Christians who recognize the fact that such a flood is impossible and never happened.

Any religion that has a God figure as a central component is based on Mythology. How many religions have no God figure as a main component?

There are an equal TON of jewish and Christians who will argue almost to the death that a global flood is factual, and happen just as it appears in Genesis.

 

[richardlowellt]

Less evil will be done???

Have you read a newspaper lately or watched the news on T.V.?

How much evil is done very day and not in the name of religion?

I read accounts of local shootings in the Buffalo area daily and none of them are due to religion. Most are due to drugs and gangs.

At least 4 die in gym shooting near Pittsburgh - CNN.com

Cops: Shooting in Buffalo leaves 2 dead, 3 wounded | KXNet.com North Dakota News

Very interesting, but the conversation is about evil done in the name of religion not evil in general.

 

[richardlowellt]

Babies are born self centered, they have to be taught that other people matter- along with anything else. But I also believe that we are born with some innate qualities.

Not true read my post on Baby brains!!!

 

[richardlowellt]

I have very neatly explained my "religious" beliefs on these threads, and it is NOTHING like Christianity. More-over I never once argued that religious people MUST be better people. My argument is that since some people learn ethics from religion, this means that THOSE PEOPLE must be MADE BETTER people as a result of it.

Do you realize how incredibly non-sensical what you did must seem to everyone else? You created a strawman out pure vapor and proceeded to try and burn "mist-man" without even bothering to check and see if you understood the argument correctly. Your contention is that religion contributes nothing positive towards people. I pointed out that for any person for whom their moral development rests upon the existence of religion, then religion must be a positive factor in their life. QED. But you seem to think that this makes me a Christian apologist or a Christian in the closet (Incidentally, I am neither. I am almost allergic to the notion of a personal deity).


Compassion is not an innate quality. Compassion is a learned quality. Read up on some basic psychology and sociology. Maybe you will actually learn something rather than maintaining your biases which amount to little more than the fantasies that you accuse others of protecting. You might want to start with Kohlberg's stages of morality.

Since I studied up on history in college I am aware that there are a lot of wars and conflicts fought in the name of religion. There are also a lot of wars and conflicts fought over money, property, family, national pride, patriotic duty, and morality (perceived insults lead to all manner of conflicts). I suppose all of those things are evil and should be banished too?


Read this carefully: Until you can show how religion differs from all other major institutions and how that specific difference leads to more conflict; there is NOTHING to your case other than smoke and biases.

MTF

I have read a considerable amount of material on psychology and disagree with you, compassion is in fact an innate quality found in humans.

Anyone that relies on religion for their moral development is essentially weak and lacking inner strength and conviction. No one needs religion to define morality, have you no faith at all in your fellow humans? Religion to those who can't find a moral high ground is a crutch, further evidence of the poison that it really is.

I have shown you numerous times how religion differs from other institutions, so once again---ONLY GOOD IS SUPPOSE TO COME FROM RELIGION!!!!

 

[richardlowellt]

And you can honestly say that children are not born selfish?????

Listen, I have five kids and six grandkids. I think of course that every one of them was born adorable and precious. I think a newborn is about as close to God as we can get.

Adorable yes. But unselfish???????? All you have to do is watch two one year olds playing with one toy they both want to see pure selfishness in action. The needs or desires of another never even cross their minds.

I guess I have different observed experiences that you. A new born is simply a young animal, nothing Godly about it. Since we are animals, mammals to be exact, our new born are simple small mammals. They are born with a blank mind, selfishness is an acquired trait.

 

[ManTimeForgot]

Richard: Just give up. You have lost this argument. It is biological imperative that drives us. Our instincts are selfish. No two ways about this. Tabula Rasa ends after a few months. When psychologists reference "babies" in studies they are not talking about toddlers. Check out Kohlberg; the man studied the "moral" habits of thousands of children. Selfishness isn't acquired; it is the default position. Empathy is not a born in trait. So when they want something they are unable to conceive of another person interferring with what they want. QED

MTF

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

Very interesting, but the conversation is about evil done in the name of religion not evil in general.

Nice side step.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

I have read a considerable amount of material on psychology and disagree with you, compassion is in fact an innate quality found in humans.

Anyone that relies on religion for their moral development is essentially weak and lacking inner strength and conviction. No one needs religion to define morality, have you no faith at all in your fellow humans? Religion to those who can't find a moral high ground is a crutch, further evidence of the poison that it really is.

I have shown you numerous times how religion differs from other institutions, so once again---ONLY GOOD IS SUPPOSE TO COME FROM RELIGION!!!!

Yep and only good is supposed to come from government, law enforcement, boy scout leaders, moms, dads, . . . etc.

Unfortunately good doesn't always come from these things.

 

[richardlowellt]

Richard: Just give up. You have lost this argument. It is biological imperative that drives us. Our instincts are selfish. No two ways about this. Tabula Rasa ends after a few months. When psychologists reference "babies" in studies they are not talking about toddlers. Check out Kohlberg; the man studied the "moral" habits of thousands of children. Selfishness isn't acquired; it is the default position. Empathy is not a born in trait. So when they want something they are unable to conceive of another person interferring with what they want. QED

MTF

I simply don't agree, Kohlberg's studies are no more valid than Dr. Janet Dorman's or Dr. Jonah Lehrer's. Biological imperatives and instincts certainly are a factor in what drives us, but I have more faith in my fellow man than you apparently do, selfishness is acquired. No they are not talking about toddlers, in the studies I pointed out, they are talking about newborns. The original point I made was that babies where born with a "blank slate" selfishness is one of many traits "imprinted" on that blank slate.

 

[richardlowellt]

Nice side step.

Try to keep up with the program here, the conversation is about evil done in the name of religion, there will be a test afterwards!!.

 

[richardlowellt]

Yep and only good is supposed to come from government, law enforcement, boy scout leaders, moms, dads, . . . etc.

Unfortunately good doesn't always come from these things.

An intelligent human knows that people are flawed, hence anything connected to humans has the potential to be flawed including mom's and dad,s. God however, is suppose to be perfect, unflawed, so one more time, ONLY GOOD IS SUPPOSE TO COME FROM RELIGION OR ANYTHING CONNECTED TO GOD!!!

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

Try to keep up with the program here, the conversation is about evil done in the name of religion, there will be a test afterwards!!.

And you totally missed the point.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

An intelligent human knows that people are flawed, hence anything connected to humans has the potential to be flawed including mom's and dad,s. God however, is suppose to be perfect, unflawed, so one more time, ONLY GOOD IS SUPPOSE TO COME FROM RELIGION OR ANYTHING CONNECTED TO GOD!!!

An intelligent human knows that people are flawed, hence anything connected to humans has the potential to be flawed including RELIGION!

My point in case you missed it this time, Nothing, including human run religion, is perfect.

 

[elisheba]

You never have to teach children to be bad - you have to teach them to be good.