horrors of religion

[richardlowellt]

Financial reasons, for one thing. I still live with my mother (I'm 21... yeah), and she's not planning on going anywhere. I do not have a job (yet), and am completely broke. (Before you say anything, I DID have a job at one point.)

For another, I'm still in school here, and do not have the resources to transfer.

Another thing, my GF still lives here, and for reasons I won't disclose here, can't leave just yet. But believe me when I say that both of us really want to get out of here and move to Canada.

Seems to me if you dislike this country so much you would find any means to move, I know that if I was that unhappy nothing would stop me from moving, I think your still a bit frightened of things that seem overwhelming, good luck in Canada, bring some warm clothing!!

 

[Riverwolf]

Seems to me if you dislike this country so much you would find any means to move, I know that if I was that unhappy nothing would stop me from moving, I think your still a bit frightened of things that seem overwhelming, good luck in Canada, bring some warm clothing!!

I don't hate the country. I pity it's fall when it rose to world power.

And yes, I am afraid to step out of the nest. Always have been. And believe me: I'm not ready to live on my own. (I may be 21, going on 22 next month, but my maturity is a few years behind.)

 

[J Bryson]

I don't get the "If you don't like it here, move" philosophy towards those who are unhappy with the current state of American politics. As some of the greatest attributes of our nation are our ability to freely express displeasure with our policies, our right to petition the government for redress of grievances, and our franchise to vote according to our own consciences, it seems un-American to suggest that people voluntarily exile themselves rather than exercise their rights fully and freely.

 

[richardlowellt]

I don't hate the country. I pity it's fall when it rose to world power.

It's been a world power for almost 60 years, at what point do you think it "fell?"

And yes, I am afraid to step out of the nest. Always have been. And believe me: I'm not ready to live on my own. (I may be 21, going on 22 next month, but my maturity is a few years behind.)

In my opinion thats is your parents fault, they should have thrown you out on your butt a long time ago.

 

[J Bryson]

In my opinion thats is your parents fault, they should have thrown you out on your butt a long time ago.

Must you make this personal? Especially when you don't know the man? Your comment was entirely uncalled for.

 

[richardlowellt]

Must you make this personal? Especially when you don't know the man? Your comment was entirely uncalled for.

Not personal at all, just my opinion based on what he said.

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't get the "If you don't like it here, move" philosophy towards those who are unhappy with the current state of American politics. As some of the greatest attributes of our nation are our ability to freely express displeasure with our policies, our right to petition the government for redress of grievances, and our franchise to vote according to our own consciences, it seems un-American to suggest that people voluntarily exile themselves rather than exercise their rights fully and freely.

I've always been uncomfortable with the "un-American" thing. It just doesn't sound right, or in line with the American ideal.

I perfectly accept people who feel that "if you don't like it, move!"

 

[Riverwolf]

In my opinion thats is your parents fault, they should have thrown you out on your butt a long time ago.

lol That method feels rather... barbaric. Sure, my mother could have been much harsher on me while I was growing up, but she knows that the "kicked out" method would never work with me. After all, she kicked my brother out for a while.

Besides, I can't survive on my own just yet; I'm in the process of developing independent living skills, and I learn more slowly than others.

 

[Riverwolf]

Must you make this personal? Especially when you don't know the man? Your comment was entirely uncalled for.

It's okay. (...okay, it's not, but) I don't take it personally. That's his view of how things should work, and it's valid. I disagree, but accept it, anyway.

 

[J Bryson]

I've always been uncomfortable with the "un-American" thing. It just doesn't sound right, or in line with the American ideal.

I perfectly accept people who feel that "if you don't like it, move!"

I don't see it as keeping with the American ideal to suggest voluntary exile to those who would like to see positive changes made in this country.

 

[Riverwolf]

Not personal at all, just my opinion based on what he said.

Exactly. ^_^

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't see it as keeping with the American ideal to suggest voluntary exile to those who would like to see positive changes made in this country.

But isn't the "American ideal" complete acceptance and tolerance, even of views that may, to us, seem *cough* "un-American?"

 

[J Bryson]

But isn't the "American ideal" complete acceptance and tolerance, even of views that may, to us, seem *cough* "un-American?"

Nope. Heinlein said it best: "You don't have to respect the other fellow's opinion. You simply have to respect his right to hold it." I tolerate other opinions, but I only accept ones that seem utterly wrongheaded to a certain degree, especially ones that are inherently self-contradictory.

 

[dogsgod]

A Pacifist sits and watches as two men surround a family, young mother, father, and three young children, two girls and a boy, both men have guns and begin to torture the mother and children as the father is forced to watch, after raping the young mother she is slowly strangled to death, the attackers now turn on the young girls, soon all will be killed in a most horrible way, the pacifist has access to a gun and at anytime could stop this slaughter, but only by killing both men. In my opinion to sit idly by a do nothing is a criminal offense as well as a moral offense, by doing nothing the pacifist has done as much evil as those who murdered.

Straw man argument. Humans can instinctively kill when threatened, pacifists included.

 

[Riverwolf]

Nope. Heinlein said it best: "You don't have to respect the other fellow's opinion. You simply have to respect his right to hold it." I tolerate other opinions, but I only accept ones that seem utterly wrongheaded to a certain degree, especially ones that are inherently self-contradictory.

Guess I was mistaking the American ideal for Hinduism.

 

[richardlowellt]

Straw man argument. Humans can instinctively kill when threatened, pacifists included.

You missed the point, the pacifist is NOT being threatened, he is witness to an ongoing mass torture and murder.

 

[dogsgod]

You missed the point, the pacifist is NOT being threatened, he is witness to an ongoing mass torture and murder.

It's a straw man argument, and a stupid one. It's not known how one will react in a given situation, a so called pacifist or otherwise.

 

[richardlowellt]

It's a straw man argument, and a stupid one. It's not known how one will react in a given situation, a so called pacifist or otherwise.

Of course you can have an expectation as to how someone is going to act given their principals. If a pacifists is resistant to taking another life, and has that mindset to the extreme, one would EXPECT him or her, to not do so regardless of the situation. I think you determine this to be stupid because you have no real answer.

 

[dogsgod]

Of course you can have an expectation as to how someone is going to act given their principals. If a pacifists is resistant to taking another life, and has that mindset to the extreme, one would EXPECT him or her, to not do so regardless of the situation. I think you determine this to be stupid because you have no real answer.

If you think principles are going to be considered in such a situation where humans are concerned, then you're the fool. Humans are instinctive killers, pacifists included given a situation. Perhaps you're young yet.

 

[richardlowellt]

If you think principles are going to be considered in such a situation where humans are concerned, then you're a fool. Humans are instinctive killers, pacifists included given a situation. Perhaps you're young yet.

The fool is the one who speculates that all humans are instinctive killers, shame on you for have such a lowly view of your fellow brothers and sisters of the planet. I only wish I were young, no I am old enough to know just how wrong you are, and have been in battle, have seen men die, have seen men refuse to kill even when their lives were threatened, have seen men kill for the fun of it, and have seen men kill to survive, so you might say I have seen men at both their worst and their best, but never have I come to the sick conclusion that you have, that all humans are instinctive killers.