horrors of religion

[Riverwolf]

And you know this how? I never knew until the moment was trust upon me, I don't think anyone really knows until that moment.

Being completely self-aware is one of the things I strive for, so that I can know how I would react to ANY situation without needing to be thrust into it.

 

[Riverwolf]

I knew these men, lived with them under horrid circumstances, you get close to each other, you get close because you haver to rely on each other, have to trust the other, trust them with your life, they had no business being in that situation, putting me and others in danger, some of us wanted to shoot them right then and there, we almost did.

I know. A soldier's duty is to obey orders. Nothing exists other than orders.

On one hand, it is important for soldiers to follow their morality, even if that means disobeying orders. ON THE OTHER HAND, to do so in the middle of a battle is dangerous to others, and is worse than refusing to obey orders.

I can tell you that many of those who are close to me do not realize that I have a killer instinct.

 

[richardlowellt]

Being completely self-aware is one of the things I strive for, so that I can know how I would react to ANY situation without needing to be thrust into it.

I have to disagree with you here, you simply cannot know how you will react in a violent situation, nothing can prepare you for that moment, as self-aware as you may be, you are not prepared, believe me I have seen many people exposed to violent situations for the first time, many really did think they were prepared. They try and teach you how to react in combat during basic and advanced infantry training but nothing can prepare you for that frightening moment.

 

[dogsgod]

And you know this how? I never knew until the moment was trust upon me, I don't think anyone really knows until that moment.

You contradict yourself, you question Riverwolf as if you know how some will react and at the same time admit you didn't know about yourself until you were thrust into it.

 

[Riverwolf]

I have to disagree with you here, you simply cannot know how you will react in a violent situation, nothing can prepare you for that moment, as self-aware as you may be, you are not prepared, believe me I have seen many people exposed to violent situations for the first time, many really did think they were prepared. They try and teach you how to react in combat during basic and advanced infantry training but nothing can prepare you for that frightening moment.

One of the methods of being self-aware is figuring out how others have reacted. Tell me, how did those men react to said violent situation?

 

[richardlowellt]

In a fashion.

On a lighter note, speaking of children, let's look at playfighting, something animal cubs do when they're younger to hone their fighting skills.

In the first video, you see two kids with boxing equipment on. It doesn't take an expert to see they don't really know what they're doing. But if you watch, you'll see that they do have a fighting/killing instinct that is exhibited in their actions. They are focusing their attacks mainly on the head (arguably the most vulnerable part of the body) and they are also doing their best to avoid attacks, mainly by trying to move out of harms reach.
YouTube - Racist Fight

In the second video, you see two kids playfighting on a bus. Here you see play biting as well as grabbing of the oponent's limbs to prevent them from attacking succesfully.
YouTube - fight

These kids do not know what they're doing by training. Their behavior and actions in said play fights are guided solely by instinct.


You'd be amazed what one can accomplish with their hands alone.

"In a fashion" what exactly does that mean? either you have or have not been in battle.

Playful children fighting each other is a far cry from "Killer instinct"

 

[richardlowellt]

I know. A soldier's duty is to obey orders. Nothing exists other than orders.

On one hand, it is important for soldiers to follow their morality, even if that means disobeying orders. ON THE OTHER HAND, to do so in the middle of a battle is dangerous to others, and is worse than refusing to obey orders.

I can tell you that many of those who are close to me do not realize that I have a killer instinct.

SIGH!!!! I don't think you have a killer instinct, you may try and protect yourself or other when danger threatens, or you may simply run away, as I said you will never know for sure until that moment. Can you sit there and honestly picture yourself killing another human, regardless of the situation?

 

[richardlowellt]

One of the methods of being self-aware is figuring out how others have reacted. Tell me, how did those men react to said violent situation?

Some fought, some curled into a ball and whimpered, some made an attempt to run away, others just froze as though in a catatonic state.

 

[dogsgod]

SIGH!!!! I don't think you have a killer instinct, you may try and protect yourself or other when danger threatens, or you may simply run away, as I said you will never know for sure until that moment. Can you sit there and honestly picture yourself killing another human, regardless of the situation?

You have no way of knowing so what's your point?

 

[Riverwolf]

SIGH!!!! I don't think you have a killer instinct, you may try and protect yourself or other when danger threatens, or you may simply run away, as I said you will never know for sure until that moment. Can you sit there and honestly picture yourself killing another human, regardless of the situation?

Yes, I can. There are times, in fact, when I've wondered "what it would be like to stab a person I love in the back, and what would happen," and I feel a (typically small) desire to do so. It is my pacifistic beliefs, and my knowledge of the consequences (such as the subsequent grief) that prevents me from doing so.

 

[Riverwolf]

Some fought, some curled into a ball and whimpered, some made an attempt to run away, others just froze as though in a catatonic state.

I would probably be one of the ones who froze. After all, war these days is impersonal and full of people shouting at you to do something while all kinds of noise (which I'm very sensitive to) echo around.

 

[Riverwolf]

By the way, I want to stress that I would most probably act completely differently in large-scale combat than I would in personal combat.

 

[richardlowellt]

You have no way of knowing so what's your point?

Because I do not believe humans are born with a killer instinct.

 

[richardlowellt]

Yes, I can. There are times, in fact, when I've wondered "what it would be like to stab a person I love in the back, and what would happen," and I feel a (typically small) desire to do so. It is my pacifistic beliefs, and my knowledge of the consequences (such as the subsequent grief) that prevents me from doing so.

If you have actually fantasized what it would be like to stab someone you loved in the back, then I would strongly suggest you seek immediate professional help.

 

[richardlowellt]

I would probably be one of the ones who froze. After all, war these days is impersonal and full of people shouting at you to do something while all kinds of noise (which I'm very sensitive to) echo around.

And how could you possibly know what war is like in these days or any other? "All kinds of noise?" There are situations in combat were the silence is deafening!!

 

[richardlowellt]

By the way, I want to stress that I would most probably act completely differently in large-scale combat than I would in personal combat.

BS, you have no way of knowing just how you would act.

 

[averageJOE]

I agree with richardlowellt 100%. Right now I'm serving in Iraq and everything he has said so far is completly accruate.

If you think principles are going to be considered in such a situation where humans are concerned, then you're the fool. Humans are instinctive killers, pacifists included given a situation. Perhaps you're young yet.

I'm 34 years old. Our convoy has been attacked twice. Both times, BOTH TIMES, the soldiers who I always figured would step up and fight back completly turned into cowards and refused to move. One of them was a Seargent who had one of the hightest PT scores in the company, fluent in martial arts, and a expert marksman with his M4. His life was in immediate danger and he refused to get out of the truck.

I support this. I, a pacifist, do, in fact, have a killer instinct, and am perfectly capable of taking a life if there is an immediate danger to it. (Though I would turn myself in if I ever did.)

No. This I highly doubt. You do not know for a fact that you have a killer instinct. Only serial killers know this.

Being completely self-aware is one of the things I strive for, so that I can know how I would react to ANY situation without needing to be thrust into it.

Again, this is false. No matter how much you think you know yourself you will never know how you will act in a situation like richard has been talking about. Chances are you would probably be consumed with fear. So much so that you couldn't move.

I have to disagree with you here, you simply cannot know how you will react in a violent situation, nothing can prepare you for that moment, as self-aware as you may be, you are not prepared, believe me I have seen many people exposed to violent situations for the first time, many really did think they were prepared. They try and teach you how to react in combat during basic and advanced infantry training but nothing can prepare you for that frightening moment.

Frubals for this!!

Some fought, some curled into a ball and whimpered, some made an attempt to run away, others just froze as though in a catatonic state.

These are some of the most common recations. Mostly by kids who only joined the military for college and other bonuses.

And how could you possibly know what war is like in these days or any other? "All kinds of noise?" There are situations in combat were the silence is deafening!!

The roads were completly silent when we got hit! Yes, the silence can be more frightening than noise.

 

[dogsgod]

Because I do not believe humans are born with a killer instinct.

Humans are the scariest species of all the creatures on this planet. The chances of being killed by a human far outweigh the chance of being killed by all the other creatures combined. As a species, as animals, meat is part of our diet. We evolved as a species that hunted and as we climbed the evolutionary ladder, when we weren't the predator we were the prey. Those that evolved with the best abilities to instinctively stand ground and fight and or flee when required lived long enough to contribute to the gene pool. When to fight or flee is not something we have time to think about when a situation is thrust upon us. People with no training can instinctively know when to stand ground and when to flee. We need these insticts to survive. What do you think the armies exploit that is within us when training us to kill?

 

[richardlowellt]

I agree with richardlowellt 100%. Right now I'm serving in Iraq and everything he has said so far is completly accruate.


I'm 34 years old. Our convoy has been attacked twice. Both times, BOTH TIMES, the soldiers who I always figured would step up and fight back completly turned into cowards and refused to move. One of them was a Seargent who had one of the hightest PT scores in the company, fluent in martial arts, and a expert marksman with his M4. His life was in immediate danger and he refused to get out of the truck.


No. This I highly doubt. You do not know for a fact that you have a killer instinct. Only serial killers know this.


Again, this is false. No matter how much you think you know yourself you will never know how you will act in a situation like richard has been talking about. Chances are you would probably be consumed with fear. So much so that you couldn't move.


Frubals for this!!


These are some of the most common recations. Mostly by kids who only joined the military for college and other bonuses.


The roads were completly silent when we got hit! Yes, the silence can be more frightening than noise.

My heart goes out to you, you are one of the brave, please be safe.

 

[richardlowellt]

I am bowing out of this. Richard is self contradictory, assuming, and insensitive. This is not a healthy discussion and I refuse to participate.

[/QUOTE} No, those who insist humans are natural born killers is not a healthy premise, sorry my "insensitivity" bothers you, why not try to join a discussion group on the benefits of a healthy diet.

 

[dogsgod]

I agree with richardlowellt 100%. Right now I'm serving in Iraq and everything he has said so far is completly accruate.


I'm 34 years old. Our convoy has been attacked twice. Both times, BOTH TIMES, the soldiers who I always figured would step up and fight back completly turned into cowards and refused to move. One of them was a Seargent who had one of the hightest PT scores in the company, fluent in martial arts, and a expert marksman with his M4. His life was in immediate danger and he refused to get out of the truck.

The point I was trying to make is that one cannot tell who will react the way you expect them to. Going into shock in a situation does not nullify instincts that could respond in different situations. Human instincts did not evolve by fighting in wars with other humans. Our instincts evolved by hunting and being hunted by other animals.

No. This I highly doubt. You do not know for a fact that you have a killer instinct. Only serial killers know this.

I am a pacifist but I know that I can kill when threatened because I seriously considered it once when I was taken hostage. Fortunately no one died but I learned an awful lot about natural human instincts that day. But I have no idea how I would react in the situation you were in when you came under attack.