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How is it true "Jesus is God"?

I.S.L.A.M617

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
Shermana said:
How about the fact that he gives you the opportunity to earn the money in the first place for it?
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My mother did that when she gave birth to me...

I think the meaning of receiving whatever you ask for doesn't apply really to material luxuries that you can afford on your own, but for things like "Give me the ability to sustain myself". Remember, it has to be something that glorifies Him.
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Everyone has the ability to sustain him/herself. The key is having the ambition to do it. Ambition comes from within the individual. So in the end, what do I have to glorify God for?
 
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Sha'irullah

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Jesus is indeed not a God in the normal sense but god can be created into whatever form man so pleases. Nothing special here.

Jesus is not God but you can call god Jesus all you wish regardless of the only true claim to Jesus is through texts that are equatable to Hellenic mythos. Jesus is a good image to focus upon when trying to imagine God honestly.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
I.S.L.A.M617 said:
My mother did that when she gave birth to me...


Everyone has the ability to sustain him/herself. The key is having the ambition to do it. So in the end, what do I have to glorify God for?
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Only if there's jobs and opportunity available. Takes money to make money for one thing.

Wait, were we talking economics here?
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
I.S.L.A.M617 said:
What's God gonna do to open up the job market or give me money? And no, we were talking about God giving me a Cadillac.
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Kind of a complicated chain of events, but perhaps he'd do something like make a reason for an opening for a company you were applying to or something like that, just for an example.

Now if God found it glorifying to Himself to give you a Cadillac, such as you using it to impress people to share the Truth He wants you to share, maybe He'd get some chain of events like a relative deciding to give you one as a gift, but I highly, highly doubt He'd give you a material luxury to serve His purpose.
 
I.S.L.A.M617

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
Shermana said:
Kind of a complicated chain of events, but perhaps he'd do something like make a reason for an opening for a company you were applying to or something like that, just for an example.
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That sounds an awful lot like giving God credit for random chance... This is part of the reason why I'm no longer religious... When something good happens, it's because God is great; you can never accomplish something based on your personal ambition and hard work. But when things are unfavorable, either it's because you're an unworthy sinner, or because God is "planning something better for you". The next good thing that happens to you by chance all of a sudden becomes the "good part of God's plan" and he's given all the credit all over again. Bull ****....


Now if God found it glorifying to Himself to give you a Cadillac, such as you using it to impress people to share the Truth He wants you to share, maybe He'd get some chain of events like a relative deciding to give you one as a gift, but I highly, highly doubt He'd give you a material luxury to serve His purpose.
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But the verse says "ask ANYTHING in my name, and I will do it", not "ask for something that helps us both out and I'll think about it if it glorifies me enough".
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
I.S.L.A.M617 said:
That sounds an awful lot like giving God credit for random chance... This is part of the reason why I'm no longer religious... When something good happens, it's because God is great; you can never accomplish something based on your personal ambition and hard work. But when things are unfavorable, either it's because you're an unworthy sinner, or because God is "planning something better for you". The next good thing that happens to you by chance all of a sudden becomes the "good part of God's plan" and he's given all the credit all over again. Bull ****....



But the verse says "ask ANYTHING in my name, and I will do it", not "ask for something that helps us both out and I'll think about it if it glorifies me enough".
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Read verse 13 before that, the verse says "So that God may be Glorified in the Son". God's not going to be glorified by a lot of things. Keeps things in context, an example of why Cherry Picking verses outside of their surrounding texts can cause nothing but disappointment.

Also, I don't really believe there's such thing as "Random chance".
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
I.S.L.A.M617 said:
So EVERYTHING that's ever happened is because God wanted it to?
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No. Everything that happens outside of MOST people's direct choices is either directly His doing or due to the paramaters and "programming" that He has set for the variables to fall as they do. But some people may be directly programmed or influenced to do what He wants as well.
 
I.S.L.A.M617

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
Shermana said:
No. Everything that happens outside of MOST people's direct choices is either directly His doing or due to the paramaters and "programming" that He has set for the variables to fall as they do. But some people may be directly programmed or influenced to do what He wants as well.
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If that's the case, he still has to pick which "variables" affect which individual. You can't logically have a middle ground.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
I.S.L.A.M617 said:
If that's the case, he still has to pick which "variables" affect which individual. You can't logically have a middle ground.
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Sure you can, it's basically "Soft Determinism", the idea that you have Free will choice but within confines of certain parameters.
 
I.S.L.A.M617

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
Shermana said:
Sure you can, it's basically "Soft Determinism", the idea that you have Free will choice but within confines of certain parameters.
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That still doesn't account for freak accidents like falling into a sinkhole or a bird dropping a giant rock on your head. What does free will have to do with incidents like that?
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
I.S.L.A.M617 said:
So you believe in reincarnation too? Jesus Christ...

Either way, if it's karmic punishment of some kind, that must mean God has some hand in the decision making, which means everything is in fact determined.
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Yes, I've discussed my belief in Reincarnation several times on several threads.

This would be soft determinism. It's a determined event based on a personal choice, whether in this incarnation or another.
 
I.S.L.A.M617

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
It all seems really far-fetched to me. I don't believe in reincarnation at all, so the concept of determinism, "soft" or otherwise, makes a lot less sense to me than random chance does, thus eliminating any need for a "god" figure of any kind.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I don't think God has either the time, or the inclination to micromanage the universe. Especially us.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
sojourner said:
I don't think God has either the time, or the inclination to micromanage the universe. Especially us.
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No Catalack Catilac Cattilac Catillac Huh? Catillack Cattilak Oh spell check knows that one It's a D no actually a d. Cadillac Aha! for you
 
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