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How much does the Christian God really love us?
- Thread starter Enoughie
- Start date
Absolutely! But you are judging God by the actions of mankind.
God created mankind with the ability be like Himself in that He gave mankind the ability to reason between good and evil.
If mankind chooses to do evil (Knowingly or not)in the name of God, is it God's fault?
I mean after all, are we not responsible for our own actions?
They were led to believe that they were doing the right thing by men who had an evil motive.
We still should not judge God for their actions.
I believe from what I know of her is that she tried to comfort those who needed comforting at the expense of her giving up all of the comforts of life in exchange.
Again, that was her choice, and God be praised that she did good.
That question goes along with your first one. And, I am trying to give you an insight as to why we, as gods, have the right to say, think or do anything we like.
Somethings we can't do because we set ourselves some laws.
But in the case of that church, we as a nation, as people had to look at that and measure ourselves against that to see just where we stood. A self examination if you will.
God gave us some insight to the problems that may occur in some circumstances so that we may have the ability to make a reasonable judgment and not suffer unnecessarily.
So the judgment call is on our Society, by us,as to what is it that we will allow, and to what extent we will allow it.
That is the point of contention that only we can iron it out amongst ourselves and nothing to do with God.
He has warned us about many things that might be hurtful to us, being that He knows what we are capable of doing.
In summary, mankind is ultimately responsible for its own actions. Whether they be for the good, or for evil.
That is a choice left up to us to manage.
God, is available to us upon our beckoning call, but must be mixed with a grain of faith in Him.
Blessing, AJ
waitasec
Veteran Member
but we are to believe these things through faith, no questions asked.
it's no wonder why people do horrific things in the name of god...
of course it's up to us to figure it out, however you cannot deny that the religious right vote against same sex marriages. they believe god thinks it's wrong while believing they are morally superior which gives them the divine right to infringe on others rights...
lets be honest here.
Well, lets look at why there are differences amongst all of us.
If we are all our own gods, meaning we decide what we want to believe, then it must mean that there are many differing beliefs.
Because of that, we must somehow all get along. So what do we do? How do we solve anything when there are differing beliefs?
One believes in God the other doesn't, so how do we get along?
If the environment in a Society liens towards a more religious structure, wouldn't you think that a non believer would have a harder time at it?
If the whole country were of non-believers, where do you think a believer would fit in?
Are not Christians in other countries persecuted for their beliefs?
There are atrocities on both sides, on the believers side as well as the unbelievers.
We all must make judgment calls for the betterment of the whole.
Blessings, AJ
Heneni
Miss Independent
Who has come to destroy the works of the devil? GOD
Who has recreated us in Christ Jesus? GOD
The same God who created the tree of life.
It was also God's will that many sons be brought to glory. Two fell, millions have risen regardless of the fall.
waitasec
Veteran Member
i never implied we will all get along. i implied we would have to work it out.
lets take god out of the equation, if there were no moral judgement based on god's supposed principals, we could reason. could we not? scientists have. homosexuality was considered a form of insanity or deviance because of a bias placed on homosexuality however, because of reason we have discovered that homosexuality is not a choice but a preference which is also applied to heterosexuality.
by keeping your nose in YOUR own business. what does homosexuality have anything to do with heterosexuality? absolutely nothing.
it is when one believes they are moraly superior strife comes in to play. as i am sure you are well aware of, we are all the same. no one is morally superior than the next guy, we are all capable of doing the same things.
so is it liberty and justice for all or for the majority...
well that you have to take up with your god, he's the one that came here to divide humanity from one another...
luke 12:51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
are there not people being subjected to inhumane circumstances? for example the horrid conditions mother theresa maintained for not allowing the use of birth control.
that is the truest thing you've said thus far. people are people and when certain people believe they have god on their side the very same people are justified in their horrid actions.
which would indicate the person make the judgement call believes they are morally superior, right?
isn't that being rather arrogant in light of how their judgement call has tormented people.
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AntEmpire
Active Member
who made the devil and allows the devil to work freely? God.
Who has made us with a need to be recreated? God.
He couldn't have just made many sons in glory? No God created a flawed system of violence death pain suffering for his own glory, he needlessly created a devil and allows him everyday to work in the hearts of men, he sits by in his throne and watches every child rape, every slow murder, every starving. But just like so many dads on cops who beat their kids when their drunk hes a loving guy really.
And if you could go back to my last posts and respond to the rest of it that'd really help.
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Take God out of the equation and you'll have no moral consciences.
For all, but because we have the responsibility to govern ourselves.
That is something we all need to work out.
Our Government is made up of both believers and unbelievers.
Any judgment calls are made by them.
I am against certain things this government justifies, but then, I have to live with them.
If I can help change those things, yes, I will exercise my right to do so.
Blessings, AJ
AntEmpire
Active Member
No God created a flawed system of violence death pain suffering for his own glory, he needlessly created a devil and allows him everyday to work in the hearts of men, he sits by in his throne and watches every child rape, every slow murder, every starving.
If I were an engineer I might make a bridge that didn't have snakes, devils, poisonous fruit, traps around every icecream store, with built in torture devices, holes that are covered so when the children cross the bridge they fall through a thin sheet of paper and into the spikes that I placed below the bridge. And I would certainly have some work done every year instead of leaving it the only bridge that can be used thats rotting and falling to pieces. Oh but its not all bad, for every trap there is a vending machine.
And I might build more than one bridge, so people like you who think a world without unnecessary pain and devils and death could choose it.
It is the biblical god's responsibility to the extent that the biblical god doesn't allow people to make informed decisions about life.
See this thread: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/109630-why-does-biblical-god-not-want.html
And specifically these posts: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2317007-post105.html and http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2312192-post61.html
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Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom
That is an absolutely fallacious claim. You can have morality, and a great incentive to live in accord with this morality without ever invoking God. I demonstrate this fact here: Natural Philosophy of Life
Not only that, but unlike the morality of the biblical god, this morality is not based on credulity, and doesn't go against reason.
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Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom
I have been trying to explain the reason for the "what I call designed flaw" in the creation of mankind, but seems to be ignored completely in lieu of human understandings.
God could not, I repeat could not have created an individual entity without giving it personal responsibility. Meaning a separate entitity, as like Himself, apart from Himself, separate as like you and I.
As separate entities, we have the ability to reason, to make decisions; pro good or pro evil.
That is a gift. The gift of life and individuality in this respect, by creating a "you", you now have existence, limited only by the flesh.
As it were, the flesh housed/houses the only existence of "you" with a death penality looming over your very existence.
This death penalty would end your existence as "You" because of your ability to be like as god; to know both good and evil.
But God's designed flaw, was a designed gift of life by which "You" can now exist forever after the flesh has been terminated.
That understanding, is foreign to humanity: hard to understand without spiritual infusions.
Is is as like humanity was created in the dark, meaning having no knowledge of it's creator, and when the light is shown upon Humanity, understanding is hard.
But the trials and sufferings of life lead us to wanting a spiritual connection for relief.
That action allows God's hand to directly intervene with our spirits creating a condition that is called a "rebirth".
A rebirth of an already existing soul, from a dead state to a live state.
So in essence, life begins at the point when that happens, and not when you or I were born physically.
Hence, the rebirth?
If you made a bridge you'd want to set it in your front yard so that you could admire your handy work. And that's it, no more and no less.
But, if you really wanted to test your own handy work of how good it is, you would put it to the test.
What does the test consist of: well for one, natural decay, second, weight limits, natural elements such as rain, snow, heat of the Sun, winds and last but not least, negligence to have the bridge maintained.
If you, as a bridge (Tested by) weather all those elements, and work to properly maintain yourself strong, abide by the directions of the engineers, you will survive the test with flying colors.
But if you do not heed the warnings, load limits, the daily maintenance of your body (Bridge) the elements, will destroy you.
Where is personal responsibility generated when there are no means for a test?
You and I my friend, have a personal responsibility to make this world a better place for ourselves, for others and certainly, for our children.
If you want the engineer to take care of it all for you, then that releases you from and responsibility to do any possible good for yourself or anybody else.
You would be totally useless, as like a bridge in the front yard for admiration purposes only, as an ornament.
Blessings, AJ
From nature. See here: If Not God, Where Do Our Values Come From? : Freedom and Nature | Natural Philosophy of Life
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Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom
I thought your god said that nothing good dwells in men.
Now, I didn't say the biblical god has to make decisions for me. I said the biblical god should allow me to make informed decisions about how to live life.
If he doesn't give us evidence for the existence of heaven, or for eternal life, or for his own existence, we cannot make an informed decision on following him.
I have no problem living a moral life. I derive my morality from nature. But the moral life I live is in contradiction to some of the claims of the biblical god. For example, I see no value in the institution of marriage - in fact, I think the institution of marriage is amoral.
So if the biblical god wants me to live my life according to his rules, he should provide evidence that his claims are true. If he doesn't do that, then it is his fault that people don't follow his bizarre rules.
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Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom
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I've read the article. If I were not a spiritually born individual, I to would agree with that article whole heartily.
But what you are reading is the Eve of Adam, the fleshly part that can not see the spiritual side of Adam.
Eve is all what the world is, made of this world, clay molded in form of the male and female specie.
That is why when you die, your body, the flesh, becomes earth again.
But the Adam, of Eve, is the consciousness in both Adam and Eve, in you and in me.
That is the part that can transcend walls, not limited by world, and of which the article fails to point out.
The discussion between you and I is about those two opposites.
The Apostle Paul pointed it out in the following verse what I just got through explaining to you: Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Pe 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
If it were not for the Son of God giving us life through His suffering, we'd all be as that verse above states!
Blessings, AJ
Dang, you are aware of a good deal of scripture, sad that it does not come alive for you.
And that is right, nothing good dwells in men and that is because of our imperfection.
The Eve of us. It takes a rebirth of our Adam (Spirit) to gain the perfection of God.
Blessings, AJ