How much does the Christian God really love us?

[free spirit]

This is patently not true. Otherwise, how would you explain the fact that people can be brainwashed to do all sorts of unethical things? How can you explain the crimes of the Nazis, child-soldiers, etc.?
We all know good and evil we choose or are forced to do evil.

Also, Jeremiah 31 clearly and unambiguously says: "all shall know me, from the least to the greatest of them."

It means everyone, from all ages. Everyone would know God.

My nephew had no idea what "God" is. Even after I tried to explain it to him, he didn't seem to "recognize" what I was referring to.

So there's no room for theological acrobatics here. Jeremiah's prophecy was not fulfilled.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

Jeremiah 31 means that all adult from the most ignorant to the most wise should know him. More to the point do you know him? Does your character includes some good or is it all neutral?

 

[Ben Masada]

Jeremiah 31 means that all adult from the most ignorant to the most wise should know him. More to the point do you know him? Does your character includes some good or is it all neutral?

FS, the prophecy of Jeremiah did get fulflled soon after the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon, when Ezra, the most famous Scribe in the History of Israel put the Scriptures together and made it available to all. Before, though, to know the Lord, the Priest, Levite, Scribes and Prophets had to teach us how to know the Lord. Now, the knowledge of God has become available to all of us. (Jer. 31:34)

With the New Covenant with the two Houses together as a People, Israel and Judah, the Scriptures which were no longer hidden from us, neither far off from us, not in heavens , that we should say, Who shall go up for us to heaven and bring it to us, that we may hear it, and do it; neither beyond the sea, that we should say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, that we may hear it, and do it? But very near to us, in our own mouth, and in our own heart, that we may do it. (Deut. 30:11-14) Now, the knowledge of the Lord is available to everyone. We have only to reach for it and learn it.

 

[Enoughie]

Jeremiah 31 means that all adult from the most ignorant to the most wise should know him. More to the point do you know him? Does your character includes some good or is it all neutral?

If a child doesn't know the Lord, then clearly someone has to tell him and teach him about God. Which utterly contradicts what the prophecy says.

I'd say I have a lot of good in me, but this good has very little to do with how the Bible defines what "good" is, or what is sinful.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[free spirit]

If a child doesn't know the Lord, then clearly someone has to tell him and teach him about God. Which utterly contradicts what the prophecy says.

I'd say I have a lot of good in me, but this good has very little to do with how the Bible defines what "good" is, or what is sinful.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

Romans 2:14-15, "for when gentiles who do not have the law do instinctively the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the works of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them."

To choose good is to know the lord, because all good is from God, if you commit to do good only eventualy you will become a son of God because your character will not be capable of doing bad things. Unbelievers can and do good things, it is the good in them that makes them do good. The amazing part is that you do not need to be religious, in the majority of instaces the umbelievers are better of doing good than believers. because they do it for goodness sake, in other words for "God sake" we cannot escape God, you like it or not he is in averyone of us.

 

[free spirit]

FS, the prophecy of Jeremiah did get fulflled soon after the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon, when Ezra, the most famous Scribe in the History of Israel put the Scriptures together and made it available to all. Before, though, to know the Lord, the Priest, Levite, Scribes and Prophets had to teach us how to know the Lord. Now, the knowledge of God has become available to all of us. (Jer. 31:34)

With the New Covenant with the two Houses together as a People, Israel and Judah, the Scriptures which were no longer hidden from us, neither far off from us, not in heavens , that we should say, Who shall go up for us to heaven and bring it to us, that we may hear it, and do it; neither beyond the sea, that we should say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, that we may hear it, and do it? But very near to us, in our own mouth, and in our own heart, that we may do it. (Deut. 30:11-14) Now, the knowledge of the Lord is available to everyone. We have only to reach for it and learn it.

I do not know when Jer. 31:34 got fulfilled, however it must have been a major change of the human heart, in any case they were not able to obey what was written in their hearts, because the Jews were still doing bad things when Jesus came. maybe He came to make it esier to obey what had been written in our heart because men cannot obey the law all of his life, as you know once you break the law you are guilty, and without a defence you be condemned .

 

[near.lucemferre]

Gods love is value-less, it's just love, there is no how much; if one were to tag it theatrically then 'the most love something can give'.

 

[Enoughie]

Romans 2:14-15, "for when gentiles who do not have the law do instinctively the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the works of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them."

If acts of kindness prove in any way the fulfillment of Jeremiah 31, then acts of evil certainly disprove it.

The assertion that people know what is good and what is evil, and still choose to do evil is far from being universally accepted.

Socrates, for example, claimed that: "If one knows the good, one will always do the good. It follows, then, that anyone who does anything wrong doesn't really know what the good is."

I come across many people who do bad things because they truly believe that what you're doing is good.

So unless you demonstrate that everyone knows exactly what good is, you cannot even come close to claim that any part of Jeremiah 31 was fulfilled.

To choose good is to know the lord, because all good is from God, if you commit to do good only eventualy you will become a son of God because your character will not be capable of doing bad things. Unbelievers can and do good things, it is the good in them that makes them do good. The amazing part is that you do not need to be religious, in the majority of instaces the umbelievers are better of doing good than believers. because they do it for goodness sake, in other words for "God sake" we cannot escape God, you like it or not he is in averyone of us.

I don't know what sort of god you believe in. But I cannot accept the obnoxious idea that, for example, a homosexual lifestyle is in any way sinful. Or that slavery is OK. But that is what the Biblical God would want us to believe. Which means that the Biblical God cannot possibly be the loving and benevolent God that (supposedly) governs the world.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom.

 

[Enoughie]

Gods love is value-less, it's just love, there is no how much; if one were to tag it theatrically then 'the most love something can give'.

Except, of course, for the fact that it isn't.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom.

 

[free spirit]

If acts of kindness prove in any way the fulfillment of Jeremiah 31, then acts of evil certainly disprove it.
Men was slave of sin, now we have a choise.

The assertion that people know what is good and what is evil, and still choose to do evil is far from being universally accepted.
Sefisheness and greed is the motivation

Socrates, for example, claimed that: "If one knows the good, one will always do the good. It follows, then, that anyone who does anything wrong doesn't really know what the good is."
Socrates has no credebility in the works of God

I come across many people who do bad things because they truly believe that what you're doing is good. this does not make sense

So unless you demonstrate that everyone knows exactly what good is, you cannot even come close to claim that any part of Jeremiah 31 was fulfilled.
Good does no hurm to a neightbour, averything else is bad.


I don't know what sort of god you believe in. But I cannot accept the obnoxious idea that, for example, a homosexual lifestyle is in any way sinful. Or that slavery is OK. But that is what the Biblical God would want us to believe. Which means that the Biblical God cannot possibly be the loving and benevolent God that (supposedly) governs the world.
Some, even believers have given themselves compliterly to immorality, the prostitute, the thief, the omosexual, the hit man, the drug addict, ect. ect. they do that for money or for the gratification of their flesh, all have been successful in burying the God in them, and proud of it, their place will be in the lake of fire, not because God wants them there, but they place themselves there of their own free will.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom.

It sound good but if there is no recognition of God it is empty.

 

[Enoughie]

If acts of kindness prove in any way the fulfillment of Jeremiah 31, then acts of evil certainly disprove it.
Men was slave of sin, now we have a choise.

That's just equivocation. If you can't demonstrate that all people know what evil

The assertion that people know what is good and what is evil, and still choose to do evil is far from being universally accepted.
Sefisheness and greed is the motivation

Selfishness and greed are sign of shortsightedness, and actually go against our enlightened self-interest. Which shows that people who choose to do these acts do not know what good is. Otherwise they wouldn't do things that hurt them in the long-run.

Socrates, for example, claimed that: "If one knows the good, one will always do the good. It follows, then, that anyone who does anything wrong doesn't really know what the good is."
Socrates has no credebility in the works of God

Socrates has just about as much credibility in the works of God as Jesus. Probably even more.

I'd say he's a greater teacher for mankind then Jesus. Socrates was preaching that people should do good, and fight against ignorance. Unlike Jesus, he didn't give anyone false hope. In the end, Socrates sacrificed his life for humanity.

I come across many people who do bad things because they truly believe that what you're doing is good. this does not make sense

It made perfect sense to them. For example, people who are intolerant of other people's lifestyles, or oppress women. They all think that they're doing God's work, while in fact they're doing evil acts.

So unless you demonstrate that everyone knows exactly what good is, you cannot even come close to claim that any part of Jeremiah 31 was fulfilled.
Good does no hurm to a neightbour, averything else is bad.

So homosexuality is good then? I'm glad we got that resolved.

I don't know what sort of god you believe in. But I cannot accept the obnoxious idea that, for example, a homosexual lifestyle is in any way sinful. Or that slavery is OK. But that is what the Biblical God would want us to believe. Which means that the Biblical God cannot possibly be the loving and benevolent God that (supposedly) governs the world.
Some, even believers have given themselves compliterly to immorality, the prostitute, the thief, the omosexual, the hit man, the drug addict, ect. ect.

I'd take out the homosexual and the prostitute from the list and put in the religious.

they do that for money or for the gratification of their flesh, all have been successful in burying the God in them, and proud of it, their place will be in the lake of fire, not because God wants them there, but they place themselves there of their own free will.

That's all utter nonsense. This god of yours is a pure fabrication. He doesn't exist. Thank goodness that there's absolutely no evidence for such a vile being, or his wicked contraptions.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom.

 

[JustWondering]

For those who believe in the free will arguement: What purpose does anger and hatred serve? Why would god endow us with the ability to feel anger and hatred?

Lust drives people to find a mate to produce children, lust serves some purpose. Greed drives people to hoard food, money, resources. With more food, money, and resources you can be more successful in finding a mate and creating a secure enviroment for your family. So greed serves a function in life. Of course when someone lets lust and/or greed get out of hand there are negative consequences. Feeling lust and greed is natural and these instincts serve a purpose.

What does anger and hatred contribute to life? The only things anger and hatred produce are conflict and violence.

 

[AntEmpire]

I concur JustWondering.

God could've easily created all people who would ever exist at the same time, with all the resources for those trillions of people. There would be no need for fighting over resources, greed would've be necessary there would be more than enough for everyone, love would be only for that, love, and lust wouldn't be needed as all the people would already be created.

 

[JustWondering]

I concur JustWondering.

God could've easily created all people who would ever exist at the same time, with all the resources for those trillions of people. There would be no need for fighting over resources, greed would've be necessary there would be more than enough for everyone, love would be only for that, love, and lust wouldn't be needed as all the people would already be created.

No matter how I look at it, this world is a harsh, merciless place full of suffering. Reality does not mesh with the concept of a kind, merciful, and loving creator god. Reality meshes with a limited god, or saddistic god, or indifferent god. If there is a god at all.

 

[AntEmpire]

I wouldn't say its is full of suffering. Its like 25% suffering, 25% pleasure and about 98% bullsheet.

 

[free spirit]

I wouldn't say its is full of suffering. Its like 25% suffering, 25% pleasure and about 98% bullsheet.

That is 148% some is obiously hyperactive

 

[free spirit]

I concur JustWondering.

God could've easily created all people who would ever exist at the same time, with all the resources for those trillions of people. There would be no need for fighting over resources, greed would've be necessary there would be more than enough for everyone, love would be only for that, love, and lust wouldn't be needed as all the people would already be created.

Good, you would be a perfect God, but I would be a robot limited within that program, I would be alive but not living. I am being created as a son, with the freedom of creation for good.

 

[waitasec]

Good, you would be a perfect God, but I would be a robot limited within that program, I would be alive but not living. I am being created as a son, with the freedom of creation for good.

what the difference between being a robot and god using ultimatums...?

 

[AntEmpire]

That is 148% some is obiously hyperactive

lawls

 

[AntEmpire]

Good, you would be a perfect God, but I would be a robot limited within that program, I would be alive but not living. I am being created as a son, with the freedom of creation for good.

How would you be any more or less limited than this world. You can lust and get angry and fight, I just wouldn't create a reward system for violence and greed.

Your rewards in my world would be expanding knowledge, creating your own space, creating art, music, conversation and even experiencing virtual worlds like this one we're in now.

 

[free spirit]

what the difference between being a robot and god using ultimatums...?

If you want to be a son of God you will have to conform to his character. That is not an ultimatums I see it as a choise, animals do not have that choise.