I am a good man, so why don't I have a girlfriend? Do I need to be a jerk instead?

[Koldo]

No, I suppose I thought you were defending the assertion that there is a general tendency for the majority of women to prefer "jerks" to "nice" guys. That implies to me that they are seeking mistreatment. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, though - in woman-speak, "jerk" is practically synonymous with "one who mistreats his girlfriend". In man-speak, I still suspect "jerk" might only mean "one who gets more women than I do".

I am going to use the urban dictionary this time:

"Jerks are selfish, manipulative b******* who see women as little more then sexual conquests to brag about to their buddies or mere objects that are there for their personal pleasure."

"An insensitive, selfish, ignorant, cocky person who is inconsiderate and does stupid things."

 

[Kathryn]

Not where I live.

Here's my hypothesis: I believe this opinion comes from tying oneself in knots trying to figure out how to "get" a woman, only to see her go off with someone else despite your best efforts. That stings! It's only natural to project your feelings of sexual inadequacy onto your more fortunate sexual competitor - it's not that he's more attractive than you are, to her, it has to be that he's a BAD PERSON and women like BAD PEOPLE. It's a neat and tidy little diversion of the pain of rejection.

The female equivalent of this neurosis is that men prefer crazy, superficial B****** with surgically enhanced boobs and fake blonde hair. For some women, it will never matter how many men tell her that's not what they're into - they can only cope with the pain of rejection by attributing it to some grave character flaw shared by everyone of the opposite gender.

Here's my honest opinion: Lots of men are jerks. Lots of women are crazy B******. Most people, short of some terrible physical affliction that presents a major obstacle, have sex. I haven't seen any evidence that the jerks and crazy B****** are having any more sex than anybody else, although it may be true that they have more sexual partners over their lives, on account of being poorly equipped to sustain a healthy pair bond for a long period of time.

Preach it, sister - and I hope all the amateurs out there are listening.

 

[Kathryn]

This thread has degraded into a nightmare of "How to pick up chicks".

What was the question of the OP again? Wasn't it asking about acting like a jerk or not to get a girlfriend?

Suddenly so many things are becoming obvious to me...

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Except I wasn't trying to give credibility to the OP's argument.

So what's your point?

To tell the OP and all his sympathizers that the cases of women who fall for jerks are not good examples of healthy and successful endeavors.

So, any situation brought up concerning women who fall for jerks will be given a counterpoint.

 

[Father Heathen]

No, I suppose I thought you were defending the assertion that there is a general tendency for the majority of women to prefer "jerks" to "nice" guys. That implies to me that they are seeking mistreatment. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, though - in woman-speak, "jerk" is practically synonymous with "one who mistreats his girlfriend". In man-speak, I still suspect "jerk" might only mean "one who gets more women than I do".

My ex roommate didn't seek to be mistreated, and in fact often went into triades about what horrible animals males were, yet she always ended up with the worse possible guys. Unless, of course, her and similar women sought/seek mistreatment on a subconscious level due to having some sort of twisted masochistic stockholm syndrome thing going on.

 

[Kathryn]

If you don't like the fact that the majority of women go for shallow good looking guys who are confident in themselves, take it up with the women, not the men who perceive it and act on it by trying to do "What works" and winning at it.

Most women I know (and keep in mind that I do have a quality circle of acquaintances and friends) actually go for NICE guys who are confident in themlselves - not "shallow good looking guys." You know, it's quite possible to be nice AND confident at the same time.

Try that on for size and see how it works for you.

Maybe, just maybe...when a guy "gets the girl" you wanted, you automatically label him as "shallow" or "a jerk" because you're threatened and jealous and frustrated. Could that be the case?

Would I even have friends with benefits if I was doing something wrong?

Hey, all I'm saying is that "friends with benefits" are a lot easier to come by, and to keep around, than a true mate. If you're just wanting friends with benefits, and you've got plenty of 'em, what are you complaining about? Maybe when you decide that you're ready for a deeper, more committed relationship, you will suddenly find those doors open too.

But it's a numbers game, guys. Just how many people out there do you really have to be compatible with mate wise - if you're interested in a serious, committed longterm relationship? So what if 99 percent of the women out there aren't interested in you? You only need a very small number in your entire lifetime, right? Chill out! Relax. Be confident! She's out there - and you'll probably find her, unless you persist in acting like petulant, insecure victimized whiners.

Why do you think we're bad for simply pointing out that there is in fact a "formula" that works in most observed cases?

Now - THIS line is really rich. You think that "confident jerk" stuff really WORKS? As I asked before, please define "success with the ladies." If you mean "it gets them into bed," or "It gets them interested" or "It distracts them," well, those are pretty low expectations when it comes to success.

 

[painted wolf]

Then tell him how to do it exactly, because he is being unable to do so.
To him, it is being quite hard.

I think I may have already addressed that issue.

Why is there a dichotomy?
How about choosing between those and someone who had many sucessful relationships that he happened to dump because he didn't want anything serious?

How does one have "many" successful relationships? Serial widower perhaps?
If you have lots of successful relationships that you are dumping... then you aren't having successful relationships.

Sounds like that person either has commitment issues or isn't communicating goals with their partner. If you feel you have to "dump" a relationship, it wasn't a success.

wa:do

 

[Father Heathen]

To tell the OP and all his sympathizers that the cases of women who fall for jerks are not good examples of healthy and successful endeavors.

So, any situation brought up concerning women who fall for jerks will be given a counterpoint.

A jerk has never sent your heart aflutter?

 

[Shermana]

Most women I know (and keep in mind that I do have a quality circle of acquaintances and friends) actually go for NICE guys who are confident in themlselves - not "shallow good looking guys." You know, it's quite possible to be nice AND confident at the same time.

I don't necessarily consider myself not-nice, I can be really mean though when I'm dealing with things that annoy me. And I feel the personal deflections coming up...oh wait here they come.

Try that on for size and see how it works for you.

It works great for me. As I said, I've turned down sex from models. I've gone to model shows where I get to go backstage and they undress right in front of me. When I go to clubs, many of the better looking girls try to get me to dance with them, I think they think I'm some rich middle eastern visiting prince or something.

Maybe, just maybe...when a guy "gets the girl" you wanted, you automatically label him as "shallow" or "a jerk" because you're threatened and jealous and frustrated. Could that be the case?

OH THERE IT IS. The personal attack. There it is. Jealous? Yes. Absolutely I am very jealous of the fact that some of these rich players can pump and dump these hot women, but I'm satisfied with what I do.

So do we see a pattern here? They don't like the messengers here do they? Target practice on the messengers?

Hey, all I'm saying is that "friends with benefits" are a lot easier to come by, and to keep around, than a true mate. If you're just wanting friends with benefits, and you've got plenty of 'em, what are you complaining about? Maybe when you decide that you're ready for a deeper, more committed relationship, you will suddenly find those doors open too.

Ah, now I am "Complaining". What other fallacies do we see here? And for the record, friends with benefits are actually HARDER to get than relationships I'd say.

But it's a numbers game, guys. Just how many people out there do you really have to be compatible with mate wise - if you're interested in a serious, committed longterm relationship? So what if 99 percent of the women out there aren't interested in you? You only need a very small number in your entire lifetime, right? Chill out! Relax. Be confident! She's out there - and you'll probably find her, unless you persist in acting like petulant, insecure victimized whiners.

Ah, now she thinks 99% of the women wouldn't be interested in me. Gee, who's the bitter one here? Of course 99% of woman aren;'t interested because they HAVE NOT MET ME. I can guarantee you if we went clubbing, you'd be changing your tune when you see what I can do.

Now - THIS line is really rich. You think that "confident jerk" stuff really WORKS? As I asked before, please define "success with the ladies." If you mean "it gets them into bed," or "It gets them interested" or "It distracts them," well, those are pretty low expectations when it comes to succes

Success with ladies, to 99% of men, involves the ability to get them to want you. If you think that's "low expectations", thanks for your opinion. We'll keep getting our "low expectations" fulfilled.

 

[Kathryn]

The OP was talking about being unable to get even the first date. He just mentioned 1 exception.



There are a lot of different men and women out there. People who haven't been into several first dates with different people and managed to estabilish a relationship in several cases are unlikely to be able to give useful advices.

There are some people out there who have only had 1 partner for their entire lives. They only lived through the first moments of a new relationship once, and it just happened to work out. Just because it worked in 1 case it doesn't mean it is going to work again. If you want tips on this step of relationships, you better off talking to someone that has been into it for several times. This kind of person has a LOT of experience on how to do it, and may actually give useful advice.

LOL, hey, that would be, errrrr, me. I definitely qualify!

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

The female equivalent of this neurosis is that men prefer crazy, superficial B****** with surgically enhanced boobs and fake blonde hair.

For me comes down to this one point. Who in the hell do I want to spend my time with. Even if it's true that most women love big fat a** holes or every man wants a b****. Why should I want that. Life is to short to look for undesirables. I will take a handful of quaulty people in my life over a truck load of jerks any day of the week. Like you implied well balanced, healthy adults tend to enjoy like minded people.

 

[painted wolf]

My ex roommate didn't seek to be mistreated, and in fact often went into triades about what horrible animals males were, yet she always ended up with the worse possible guys. Unless, of course, her and similar women sought/seek mistreatment on a subconscious level due to having some sort of twisted masochistic stockholm syndrome thing going on.

It happens... especially when the woman grew up in a dysfunctional home. Especially when one witnesses abusive relationships as a young child... you internalize what is "normal".

wa:do

 

[Kathryn]

men have to work very, very hard to get women in many cases, even for so-called "confident jerks" unless they're born into a trust fund and have natural good looks which makes their job 100x easier. Women just have to stand there to get hit on and be of reasonable attractiveness. That's called nature at work.

omg....

 

[Shermana]

omg....

The truth can be very painful and difficult for some, I know. Enough to the point they want to shoot the messenger.

 

[Kathryn]

I don't necessarily consider myself not-nice, I can be really mean though when I'm dealing with things that annoy me. And I feel the personal deflections coming up...oh wait here they come.

It works great for me. As I said, I've turned down sex from models. I've gone to model shows where I get to go backstage and they undress right in front of me. When I go to clubs, many of the better looking girls try to get me to dance with them, I think they think I'm some rich middle eastern visiting prince or something.

OH THERE IT IS. The personal attack. There it is. Jealous? Yes. Absolutely I am very jealous of the fact that some of these rich players can pump and dump these hot women, but I'm satisfied with what I do.

So do we see a pattern here? They don't like the messengers here do they? Target practice on the messengers?

Ah, now I am "Complaining". What other fallacies do we see here? And for the record, friends with benefits are actually HARDER to get than relationships I'd say.

Ah, now she thinks 99% of the women wouldn't be interested in me. Gee, who's the bitter one here? Of course 99% of woman aren;'t interested because they HAVE NOT MET ME. I can guarantee you if we went clubbing, you'd be changing your tune when you see what I can do.


Success with ladies, to 99% of men, involves the ability to get them to want you. If you think that's "low expectations", thanks for your opinion. We'll keep getting our "low expectations" fulfilled.

All I can say is, you took this wayyyyyyyy too personally. Sorry for the use of personal pronouns. Next time I'll say "If ONE wants to be successful with the ladies, ONE might try not to be so hypersensitive."

 

[jasonwill2]

I find it interesting that if we convey personal experiences on what we've dealt with by and large for the most part, there's something wrong with us because of the actions by those who give us our perceptions. Maybe...just maybe, the fault is not the man's for perceiving patterns and making use of those patterns?

I agree, we only have our expereinces to go on.

Hey, look here, dude, I do NOT mean it in an offensive way. I was twenty years old once too - anyone over twenty has been your age and we were just as valuable a human then as we are now.

The very fact that you suddenly feel so explosively angry when I mention your age does say a lot, though, about your maturity level.

Your joking, right? Being angry doesn't make me inmature? So I guess I'm "bad" for feeling angry?

DID YOU CONSIDER THAT FACT THAT I ***DIDN'T *** EXPLODE AN CALL YOU NAMES AS A SIGN THAT I HAVE CONTROL AND MATURITY?

Maybe you should keep quite about things you know nothing of; you know nothing of me or my life or expereinces; I am only vocing what i have seen in other relationships

 

[Koldo]

LOL, hey, that would be, errrrr, me. I definitely qualify!

The big 'lol' was the best.

 

[Kathryn]

The truth can be very painful and difficult for some, I know. Enough to the point they want to shoot the messenger.

Hey, you - I gave you frubals just a few minutes ago. Chill out.

 

[Kathryn]

I agree, we only have our expereinces to go on.



Your joking, right? Being angry doesn't make me inmature? So I guess I'm "bad" for feeling angry?

DID YOU CONSIDER THAT FACT THAT I ***DIDN'T *** EXPLODE AN CALL YOU NAMES AS A SIGN THAT I HAVE CONTROL AND MATURITY?

Maybe you should keep quite about things you know nothing of; you know nothing of me or my life or expereinces; I am only vocing what i have seen in other relationships

Did you mean this to be funny? I sure hope so because I nearly knocked my wine glass over laughing so hard! And it's good wine, so please quit being such a wit!

 

[Shermana]

All I can say is, you took this wayyyyyyyy too personally. Sorry for the use of personal pronouns. Next time I'll say "If ONE wants to be successful with the ladies, ONE might try not to be so hypersensitive."

Now now, you meant that personally at me by the specific examples I used. It's okay to be honest and admit that you were trying to use me as your personal example by saying I feel "Threatened and jealous".

So for the record, yes, I unabashedly admit that I am exceedingly jealous of a rich player's ability to have a harem of lovely willing ladies without nearly the effort the rest of us would put in, and I guess I do feel threatened by them in the same way I'd feel that an extremely tall guy on the other basketball team would threaten our team's chances.