I am a good man, so why don't I have a girlfriend? Do I need to be a jerk instead?

[Badran]

If he is he shouldn't assume women the way he did. That may be one of his problems there. As for his frustrations, well I'm in the same boat but I'm not going to assume men are all shallow jerks who only want a trophy for a girlfriend/wife.

I agree. But i honestly think its quite possible that he was asking, and sharing his frustrations, rather than asserting anything.

In my opinion he shouldn't be nice just because he thinks it's going to get him a woman or girl. He should be who his is and maybe with a little help like confidence and self esteem, he can be nice without using it as a means just to get women.

I agree, and think that this what he actually said. He said that he's naturally a "kind and loving chap", and that as he understands, this is what women like.

That is, he wasn't saying that he's trying to be so to meet women's needs and is frustrated that its not working.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I feel for the guy, but I still find the OP's line of questioning baseless.

I don't take kindly to women being mischaracterized nor assumed of what they REALLY want even when we're telling the guy point blank. No matter how much pain and frustration a man is going through. Truth is truth.

 

[Badran]

I feel for the guy, but I still find the OP's line of questioning baseless.

I don't take kindly to women being mischaracterized nor assumed of what they REALLY want even when we're telling the guy point blank. No matter how much pain and frustration a man is going through. Truth is truth.

I might be forgetting due to the length of the thread, but i don't recall the guy coming back to negate or dismiss any of the sincere (or otherwise) advice given to him by the women here.

That was done by others.

 

[Badran]

when there's a choice in the matter, we should take others in good faith.

I agree, at least as much as possible.

 

[Koldo]

What is the best way to say that:

1) I agree completely with what Badran said in these last posts.
2) It astonishes me other people are having a hard time interpreting it this way.
3) I really hope people are going to understand what Badran said to settle this issue.

?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Allow me to turn this around....

Janie is your typical 25 year old woman who gets up every day to go to work. She hasn't dated anybody since college, and those dates were disastrous (the man wasn't paying enough attention to her, he kept checking out other women, or he took her to some bar and grill and not to a nice restaraunt).

She's hung out with a few of her co-workers after work many times, and has fun, but she's tired and frustrated of never having a man by her side even though she sees her much more attractive, taller, more voluptuous female co-workers nab all the good guys. She's hung out with her male friends, gone to hockey games with them, listened to their stories about how they were cheated on, and she just wants to shake her male friends and yell out, "LOOK!!! I'M A GOOD WOMAN!!! WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO BE WITH ME!!!!!!"

.

.

.

She will come off as desperate at best and ready to break into your house to cook your pet rabbit at worst. My advice to her would be the same: stop being so needy, be yourself, love your life, and enjoy people.

 

[beenie]

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[Sunstone]

What is the best way to say that:

1) I agree completely with what Badran said in these last posts.
2) It astonishes me other people are having a hard time interpreting it this way.
3) I really hope people are going to understand what Badran said to settle this issue.

?

Do you also agree that it's folly to generalize about "what all women want"?

 

[Reverend Rick]

I think there is an age problem here. The women the OP is going to hook up in life with are still children right now.

Women his age are looking for a good time, not a life mate. Women are looking for a guy who can pick up the check, drives a nice car, wears cool clothes and most of all has confidence.

Women mature faster than men. They naturally are interested in men who show a higher level of maturity akin to themselves.

My advice to the OP is quit trying so hard. When you quit chasing and act like you could care less, the problem will solve it's self.

 

[Kathryn]

I think there is an age problem here. The women the OP is going to hook up in life with are still children right now.

Women his age are looking for a good time, not a life mate. Women are looking for a guy who can pick up the check, drives a nice car, wears cool clothes and most of all has confidence.

Women mature faster than men. They naturally are interested in men who show a higher level of maturity akin to themselves.

My advice to the OP is quit trying so hard. When you quit chasing and act like you could care less, the problem will solve it's self.

Oh man, you better be careful pointing out that age thing. I've endured several incensed posts as well as a barrage of PMs over even mentioning that very critical part of the equation.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Oh man, you better be careful pointing out that age thing. I've endured several incensed posts as well as a barrage of PMs over even mentioning that very critical part of the equation.

Kid Rock said it best in a song where he was somewhere between a boy and man as she was 17 and far from inbetween.

 

[Kathryn]

Kid Rock said it best in a song where he was somewhere between a boy and man as she was 17 and far from inbetween.

Great song, by the way. What are us old people doing listening to such stuff?

 

[Badran]

Allow me to turn this around....

Janie is your typical 25 year old woman who gets up every day to go to work. She hasn't dated anybody since college, and those dates were disastrous (the man wasn't paying enough attention to her, he kept checking out other women, or he took her to some bar and grill and not to a nice restaraunt).

She's hung out with a few of her co-workers after work many times, and has fun, but she's tired and frustrated of never having a man by her side even though she sees her much more attractive, taller, more voluptuous female co-workers nab all the good guys. She's hung out with her male friends, gone to hockey games with them, listened to their stories about how they were cheated on, and she just wants to shake her male friends and yell out, "LOOK!!! I'M A GOOD WOMAN!!! WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO BE WITH ME!!!!!!

Though i think the example is not equal in some aspects, i would honestly still not post the kind of responses i'm objecting to.

I don't think "tough love" is warranted in these kinds of situations. Perhaps if the person in question is doing this over and over, constantly ignoring what others are telling him and so forth, some tougher ways of conveying the advice might be warranted.

But if its the first time they're experiencing it, i wouldn't do it. Especially when nothing suggests that the person is prejudice against the other gender, or necessitates it.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I might be forgetting due to the length of the thread, but i don't recall the guy coming back to negate or dismiss any of the sincere (or otherwise) advice given to him by the women here.

That was done by others.

He also never came back to respond positively either.

The women here, overall, have said the exact same thing. We don't owe anybody anything, and because a guy can't get a date, it doesn't suddenly become a woman's problem. If a guy can't score after taking a woman out 5 times, she doesn't owe him anything and it's not her problem. If a guy can't get his girlfriend to perform certain things in bed after they've started sleeping together, she doesn't owe him anything and it's not her problem. If a guy can't get a woman to agree to a threesome, she doesn't owe him anything and it's not her problem.

This all bleeds into a certain perspective that a woman owes a man something because he's "slayed the dragon."

Why, I ask, should anyone be so frustrated that they feel they must forgo certain ethics of behavior unless they're expecting a prize at the end of their so-called "chivlary"? Instead of just looking at the fact that somebody's frustrated, look at why their frustrated, and if they can change the perspective, that should be done.

I can be frustrated that my business isn't taking off like I'd planned. But should I go around and blame everyone for not patronizing my business? Or should I just continue to work everyday with ethics and good service?

 

[Badran]

What is the best way to say that:

1) I agree completely with what Badran said in these last posts.
2) It astonishes me other people are having a hard time interpreting it this way.
3) I really hope people are going to understand what Badran said to settle this issue.

?

I think this way is good enough.

 

[MissAlice]

I agree. But i honestly think he was asking, and sharing his frustrations, rather than asserting anything.



I agree, and think that this what he actually said. He said that he's naturally a "kind and loving chap", and that as he understands, this is what women like.

That is, he wasn't saying that he's trying to be so to meet women's needs and is frustrated that its not working.

I understand. I think however and without coming off as someone who's bashing his post, he needs to understand women as people first. I don't think these stereotypes help. I look around me and see people in many diverse relationships and then I see people who get bitter and buy into what they see in the media or read in magazines and to be truthful I was one of those people.

Anyway if I had advice I think he needs to learn what he's looking for in a girl and see if he can find one on his same level if the expectations aren't too much. I don't think he's going to be satisfied getting into a relationship where he feels he has to act fake simply because he perceives a certain stereotype attractive. He also needs to realize women also have qualities other than the propagated stereotypes they are attracted to. Women as a whole should not feel obligated to be with him simply because he's nice. There are other qualities like men women find attractive in men and they go beyond just being nice or being a jerk. Relationships are give and take and for me I am single not so much out of choice but because I'm a little selfish. I think it takes some self sacrificing and getting out of your comfort zone to be in one.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Though i think the example is not equal in some aspects, i would honestly still not post the kind of responses i'm objecting to.

I don't think "tough love" is warranted in these kinds of situations. Perhaps if the person in question is doing this over and over, constantly ignoring what others are telling him and so forth, some tougher ways of conveying the advice might be warranted.

But if its the first time they're experiencing it, i wouldn't do it. Especially when nothing suggests that the person is prejudice against the other gender, or necessitates it.

The OP said more than enough, I think. When someone muses about being a jerk to women, tough love is the nicest I can think of to answer it.

 

[Kathryn]

Also, I need to point out that we weren't responding JUST to the guy in the OP. We were also responding to other, and in some cases, more inflammatory, posts by other people.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I understand. I think however and without coming off as someone who's bashing his post, he needs to understand women as people first. I don't think these stereotypes help. I look around me and see people in many diverse relationships and then I see people who get bitter and buy into what they see in the media or read in magazines and to be truthful I was one of those people.

Anyway if I had advice I think he needs to learn what he's looking for in a girl and see if he can find one on his same level if the expectations aren't too much. I don't think he's going to be satisfied getting into a relationship where he feels he has to act fake simply because he perceives a certain stereotype attractive. He also needs to realize women also have qualities other than the propagated stereotypes they are attracted to. Women as a whole should not feel obligated to be with him simply because he's nice. There are other qualities like men women find attractive in men and they go beyond just being nice or being a jerk. Relationships are give and take and for me I am single not so much out of choice but because I'm a little selfish. I think it takes some self sacrificing and getting out of your comfort zone to be in one.

First off any man who claims to understand women completely is a damn fool. Even if it was possible to do so, you all would change your ways just for spite.

The OP does have a point that while many folks claim to want a certain kind of person, they usually are attracted to something different.

Then you have the situation that nice guys finish last which is not nessessarily a bad thing depending on what your doing.

 

[Badran]

He also never came back to respond positively either.

He might be thinking over all the advice...

He might have been in fact turned off by all the negative feedback...

He might be convinced but still decided to not respond due to all the negative posts....

And, the point is that he didn't continue to say this despite the advice given from women. Which was part of your point.

The women here, overall, have said the exact same thing. We don't owe anybody anything, and because a guy can't get a date, it doesn't suddenly become a woman's problem. If a guy can't score after taking a woman out 5 times, she doesn't owe him anything and it's not her problem. If a guy can't get his girlfriend to perform certain things in bed after they've started sleeping together, she doesn't owe him anything and it's not her problem. If a guy can't get a woman to agree to a threesome, she doesn't owe him anything and it's not her problem.

This all bleeds into a certain perspective that a woman owes a man something because he's "slayed the dragon."

I understand, and i'm saying exactly that it isn't necessary that he thinks women owe him anything, as i tried to clarify.

Why, I ask, should anyone be so frustrated that they feel they must forgo certain ethics of behavior unless they're expecting a prize at the end of their so-called "chivlary"? Instead of just looking at the fact that somebody's frustrated, look at why their frustrated, and if they can change the perspective, that should be done.

I'm not sure i understand what you mean here. If you're referring to his desire for women (the prize), then of course he wants to get women.

If you're saying that the problem lies at the core of his needs, then i most certainly agree. And if you read my first post here, its something to this effect.

I can be frustrated that my business isn't taking off like I'd planned. But should I go around and blame everyone for not patronizing my business? Or should I just continue to work everyday with ethics and good service?

We don't disagree at all in this principle. I get your point and agree with it.