I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things

[muhammad_isa]

If God said on Monday, "Hey, TrailBlazer, I know for a fact that Tibs is going to wear the RED shirt on Friday," and then for Tibs to wear the BLUE shirt on Friday, then God would have been wrong on Monday.

What a load of nonsense!
G-d cannot be wrong if He is omniscient.

It is absolutely false to suggest that we are forced to choose something.
It simply means that G-d knows what we will choose of our own free-will.

eg. If G-d knows that you will choose a red shirt, you will choose a red shirt of your own free-will, and NOT because you are unable to choose a blue shirt. If you had wanted to choose a blue shirt, then G-d would have known that.

It is false to suggest that the reason why you will choose the red shirt is because you are unable to choose the blue shirt. THAT IS COMPLETELY FALSE. You will not choose the blue shirt, because you don't want to .. and G-d knows it.

 

[Trailblazer]

When you can demonstrate that, I will consider what you say.

I already have.

 

[Trailblazer]

What a load of nonsense!
G-d cannot be wrong if He is omniscient.

It is absolutely false to suggest that we are forced to choose something.
It simply means that G-d knows what we will choose of our own free-will.

eg. If G-d knows that you will choose a red shirt, you will choose a red shirt of your own free-will, and NOT because you are unable to choose a blue shirt. If you had wanted to choose a blue shirt, then G-d would have known that.

It is false to suggest that the reason why you will choose the red shirt is because you are unable to choose the blue shirt. THAT IS COMPLETELY FALSE. You will not choose the blue shirt, because you don't want to .. and G-d knows it.

Please read my post.
#400 Trailblazer, 2 minutes ago

 

[ppp]

I already have.

Oh, hon. You haven't even demonstrated that you understand it, yet.

 

[rational experiences]

Oh, hon. You haven't even demonstrated that you understand it, yet.

Think you're doing honey?

No such reasoning as science. A sick mind wrote the bible by changed attacked brain. As all humans are first human.

If you said I'm trying to do a Stephen Hawking on everyone. His life was lots of sexual human experiences is human owned.

What the atmosphere was doing was by inferred term gods only business.

If you believe that man is AI then your mind is actually not conscious natural anymore.

I know as I live my ownership to think for myself removed by atmospheric heavens. Now I just get told.

Same for most of you human AI believers.

 

[CG Didymus]

What's the point of the script?

It's not for us: I've never seen it, I bet you haven't seen it either, and in any case, we'd do whatever we do with or without it.

It's not for God, since he knew what we would do even if it didn't exist. The existence of the script doesn't lock it in, since it was locked in the instant God knew what we'd do, and that was before the script.

Sounds to me like it's a McGuffin.

Is this God of theirs in control or not? If not, what good is he? The Gods of other people do intervene and guide them. And I would think any loving creator God would want to help his creation.

Maybe because it looks like God doesn't care, that he turns a blind eye to injustices and the pain and suffering, some religious people had to invent a way to take the blame away from God. And that invention was "free will". It is so important to God that he can't intervene and take away a persons sacred right to make stupid choices that hurt themselves and others.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh, hon. You haven't even demonstrated that you understand it, yet.

You are the one who has not demonstrated anything... you are just riding piggyback on Tiberius who is dead wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

@Tiberius
I suggest you read my post.......
#400 Trailblazer, 2 minutes ago

and try to remove your bias so you can understand it.

 

[CG Didymus]

On Monday, God comes to you and says, "Hey, TrailBlazer, I know for a fact that Tibs is going to wear the RED shirt on Friday."

Is there ANY POSSIBLE WAY I would be able to choose to wear the BLUE shirt instead?

And isn't that, supposedly, what God does? He tells someone what is going to happen, a prophecy. Then when it does happen, that person can say, "You see. I told you that God told me." The problem is that God makes his prophecies too vague. Or, is it the prophet that makes it too vague?

 

[ppp]

You are the one who has not demonstrated anything... you are just riding piggyback on Tiberius who is dead wrong.

I refer you back to post 404.

 

[CG Didymus]

How is that a trick? All of his cards were on the table and there was no hidden trap. He laid out his syllogism (not "assertion") plain as day for everyone to examine.

That didn't fly over his head. If God said on Monday, "Hey, TrailBlazer, I know for a fact that Tibs is going to wear the RED shirt on Friday," and then for Tibs to wear the BLUE shirt on Friday, then God would have been wrong on Monday.

What I don't agree with is this notion that God doesn't get involved in what choices to make. I know lots of people that do believe that God is directing them in the choices they make. And, if there is a God, he better be communicating to his people. And I wouldn't doubt that some Baha'is feel God is guiding them.

Then we have a different problem... is that voice they're hearing really God? Considering that people in the other religions also hear that still, quiet voice of God guiding them.... But it's a different God. Or, similar, those people that think their dead Mom is guiding them and watching over them. Real or just all in their head?

 

[ppp]

What I don't agree with is this notion that God doesn't get involved in what choices to make. I know lots of people that do believe that God is directing them in the choices they make. And, if there is a God, he better be communicating to his people. And I wouldn't doubt that some Baha'is feel God is guiding them.

I honestly don't see how free will could exist along side an omni-god, unless someone just says its a miracle. But then, I don't think that free will is a thing anyway.

Then we have a different problem... is that voice they're hearing really God? Considering that people in the other religions also hear that still, quiet voice of God guiding them.... But it's a different God. Or, similar, those people that think their dead Mom is guiding them and watching over them. Real or just all in their head?

Right. Even if it does happen to be God, there is nothing to say that it is their god, or that the god they are listening to is moral.

 

[Trailblazer]

I refer you back to post 404.

Oh, hon. You haven't even demonstrated that you understand it, yet.
SAYING that you have demonstrated something is not EVIDENCE that you have demonstrated something.
That is not how logic works.

 

[ppp]

SAYING that you have demonstrated something is not EVIDENCE that you have demonstrated something.
That is not how logic works.

Where did I say I have demonstrated something?

 

[John53]

Is this God of theirs in control or not? If not, what good is he? The Gods of other people do intervene and guide them. And I would think any loving creator God would want to help his creation.

Ever chatted with a Calvinist? The predestination thing is mind blowing, everything in your life is decided by God, talk about being set up to fail, God decided I'd be an atheist and will be tortured for eternity for being what I had no decision in. Even so I think I prefer that to the free will excuse. What free will does an abducted child have when they're being tortured and murdered, what free will does someone with Alzheimer's have.

 

[ppp]

What a load of nonsense!
G-d cannot be wrong if He is omniscient.

If God cannot be wrong about red, then Tib cannot exercise his free will and choose blue.

If G-d knows that you will choose a red shirt, you will choose a red shirt of your own free-will, and NOT because you are unable to choose a blue shirt. If you had wanted to choose a blue shirt, then G-d would have known that.

I would want to choose a different shirt from the one that God truthfully said that I would choose. Just to see if I could.
What would happen? Would the Fashion Police taze me, then jam the God designated RED shirt over my head? Would a freak lightening strike destroy the BLUE shirt?

In other words, could I successfully put on the BLUE shirt and never wear the RED shirt? What would stop me?

 

[Trailblazer]

I would want to choose a different shirt from the one that God truthfully said that I would choose. Just to see if I could.

God did not SAY anything about what color shirt Tibs would wear.
Tibs said that God said what color shirt Tibs would wear.

God would never say that Tibs would wear a RED shirt because God has always known that Tibs would choose to wear a BLUE shirt.

Case closed.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If God cannot be wrong about red, then Tib cannot exercise his free will and choose blue.

Pointless remark !
"If God cannot be wrong about red, then Tib cannot exercise his free will and choose blue."

On the one hand, you merely state the obvious ie. You will choose what G-d knows you will choose..
..but then you mislead everybody by implying that you weren't free to choose what you wanted to choose, because of your conditional statement [ "if G-d knows you will choose **** ]

That is a blatant lie.

You are not prevented from choosing blue because G-d knows you will choose red.
The ONLY reason you will choose red, is because you have said so. [ a conditional ]

 

[ppp]

Pointless remark !
"If God cannot be wrong about red, then Tib cannot exercise his free will and choose blue."

On the one hand, you merely state the obvious ie. You will choose what G-d knows you will choose..
..but then you mislead everybody by implying that you weren't free to choose what you wanted to choose, because of your conditional statement [ "if G-d knows you will choose **** ]

That is a blatant lie.

You are not prevented from choosing blue because G-d knows you will choose red.
The ONLY reason you will choose red, is because you have said so. [ a conditional ]

I would want to choose a different shirt from the one that God truthfully said that I would choose. Just to see if I could.
What would happen?

 

[muhammad_isa]

I would want to choose a different shirt from the one that God truthfully said that I would choose. Just to see if I could.
What would happen?

That is a contradiction.
Is it possible to choose something other than what G-d knows that you will want to choose?
It is nonsensical .. meaningless.