I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things

[John53]

When you invoke God by wondering why God would not do something, like protecting children from abusers, I view that as blaming God for not protecting children from abusers.

John53 said: I say why doesn't God protect children from abusers. The standard excuse for [insert favourite God here] is free will. That's the general answer,

Basically you are saying that if God existed God should be protecting children from abusers instead of expecting humans to choose to protect children from abusers with their free will.

I do not understand how that is blaming humans.

We're in a conversation about God and I don't want to type 10 times more than is necessary but it looks like I have to. Here... why doesn't (your) god (that I don't believe exists) protect children from abusers when he (your god I don't believe exists) is capable of preventing the abuse (according to your statements)? I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would worship such an evil being (that I don't believe exists).

It just makes the sentence bloated and confusing....

Your god (that I don't believe exists) does not abuse children. Evil humans abuse children.
Your god (that I don't believe exists) is not causing the flooding that has me trapped at home. It's caused by an east coast low.
The list of things I don't blame your god for is endless because I don't believe it is real!

 

[muhammad_isa]

..why doesn't (your) god (that I don't believe exists) protect children from abusers when he (your god I don't believe exists) is capable of preventing the abuse?

The answer is simple.
G-d is not a person. He [ neither male or female ] has created human beings to test them, individually and collectively, and each and every one of us must die and return to Him.

Our lives here on earth are as "a blink of an eye" compared to eternity, and those that suffer at the hands of others will eventually be compensated .. as will those who perpetrate evil be punished.

G-d could have made a world without evil, but we would not then have the responsibility that we do.
If G-d intervened at every bad thing that happens, this reality would no longer serve the same purpose.
G-d knows better than we do. If we think that we can know better than One who is capable of creating and maintaining this universe, then there is not much left more to say.
If we don't believe in a "higher power". this can only mean that we think that we are the highest authority. What a joke that is.

 

[John53]

The answer is simple.
G-d is not a person. He [ neither male or female ] has created human beings to test them, individually and collectively, and each and every one of us must die and return to Him.

Our lives here on earth are as "a blink of an eye" compared to eternity, and those that suffer at the hands of others will eventually be compensated .. as will those who perpetrate evil be punished.

G-d could have made a world without evil, but we would not then have the responsibility that we do.
If G-d intervened at every bad thing that happens, this reality would no longer serve the same purpose.
G-d knows better than we do. If we think that we can know better than One who is capable of creating and maintaining this universe, then there is not much left more to say.
If we don't believe in a "higher power". this can only mean that we think that we are the highest authority. What a joke that is.

The real answer is even simpler. Your logic defying god is not real, it's a man made concept.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The real answer is even simpler.

..then why ask the question if you already have an answer?
..perhaps it is not really a question .. just an accusation.

 

[Trailblazer]

We're in a conversation about God and I don't want to type 10 times more than is necessary but it looks like I have to. Here... why doesn't (your) god (that I don't believe exists) protect children from abusers when he (your god I don't believe exists) is capable of preventing the abuse (according to your statements)? I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would worship such an evil being (that I don't believe exists).

It just makes the sentence bloated and confusing....

Your god (that I don't believe exists) does not abuse children. Evil humans abuse children.
Your god (that I don't believe exists) is not causing the flooding that has me trapped at home. It's caused by an east coast low.
The list of things I don't blame your god for is endless because I don't believe it is real!

A better question is why should my God protect children from abusers even if my God is capable of preventing the abuse? I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would expect God to play Superman and come on down to earth to do what humans are fully capable of doing and what humans have been enjoined to do by my God.

Why should God do everything that God is capable of doing?
Why should God do what humans are fully capable of doing?

Your god (that I don't believe exists) does not abuse children. Evil humans abuse children.
Your god (that I don't believe exists) is not causing the flooding that has me trapped at home. It's caused by an east coast low.
The list of things I don't blame your god for is endless because I don't believe it is real!

Okay then. Why should God prevent what God does not cause?
If evil humans abuse children why should God prevent that?
Seems to me that those evil humans are responsible for preventing that abuse.

 

[John53]

..then why ask the question if you already have an answer?

Because it's a discussion forum and I enjoy other peoples opinions when they are willing and capable of a friendly adult discussion. Maybe I'll learn something.

 

[Trailblazer]

The answer is simple.
G-d is not a person. He [ neither male or female ] has created human beings to test them, individually and collectively, and each and every one of us must die and return to Him.

Our lives here on earth are as "a blink of an eye" compared to eternity, and those that suffer at the hands of others will eventually be compensated .. as will those who perpetrate evil be punished.

G-d could have made a world without evil, but we would not then have the responsibility that we do.
If G-d intervened at every bad thing that happens, this reality would no longer serve the same purpose.
G-d knows better than we do. If we think that we can know better than One who is capable of creating and maintaining this universe, then there is not much left more to say.
If we don't believe in a "higher power". this can only mean that we think that we are the highest authority. What a joke that is.

That was a lot better than my answer.
I am saving this post in a Word document for future reference.
God knows I will be needing it.

Why doesn't God play Superman?
Duh, got milk? A better question is why should God play Superman?

 

[John53]

A better question is why should my God protect children from abusers even if my God is capable of preventing the abuse? I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would expect God to play Superman and come on down to earth to do what humans are fully capable of doing and what humans have been enjoined to do by my God.

Why should God do everything that God is capable of doing?
Why should God do what humans are fully capable of doing?

It's what any intelligent, loving compassionate being would do. But to be unnecessarily clear, I don't believe your god or any other god is anything other than a man made concept.

Okay then. Why should God prevent what God does not cause?

You're still confused. I don't think a god caused anything, I don't think a god can prevent anything because I don't believe any god exists. I'm asking you why you worship a being that you say is capable of preventing harm to children but doesn't.

If evil humans abuse children why should God prevent that?

He can't, I don't believe he exists.

Seems to me that those evil humans are responsible for preventing that abuse.

Yes they are.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's what any intelligent, loving compassionate being would do.

Only in your opinion. In my opinion God would never do that because that is not His job.
God wants humans to do that because it is their job.

I'm asking you why you worship a being that you say is capable of preventing harm to children but doesn't.

God is not responsible for preventing harm so I do not expect God to do that.

If God prevented harm to children why shouldn't God also prevent harm to adults? If God intervened and prevented harm every time that harm was about to occur that would upset the entire order in the world and make our purpose for being here null and void. Humans would be reduced to puppets in a string and have no responsibility for their own behavior. Humans would never have the opportunity to learn from their mistakes. Other humans would not have the opportunity to help others and become better people if God prevented all harm.

 

[CG Didymus]

The answer is simple.
G-d is not a person. He [ neither male or female ] has created human beings to test them, individually and collectively, and each and every one of us must die and return to Him.

Our lives here on earth are as "a blink of an eye" compared to eternity, and those that suffer at the hands of others will eventually be compensated .. as will those who perpetrate evil be punished.

G-d could have made a world without evil, but we would not then have the responsibility that we do.
If G-d intervened at every bad thing that happens, this reality would no longer serve the same purpose.
G-d knows better than we do. If we think that we can know better than One who is capable of creating and maintaining this universe, then there is not much left more to say.
If we don't believe in a "higher power". this can only mean that we think that we are the highest authority. What a joke that is.

There is a big test being presented to you now... Is Baha'u'llah the new messenger from God? You have to make that choice. God is not going to make it for you. Is God testing you to see if you'll by true to the Islamic religion? Or is God testing you to see if you will recognize that the Baha'i Faith is the truth and the new religion of God for today? Either way... that's a much more important question to answer than arguing with Atheists.

 

[John53]

Only in your opinion. In my opinion God would never do that because that is not His job.
God wants humans to do that because it is their job.

God is not responsible for preventing harm so I do not expect God to do that.

If God prevented harm to children why shouldn't God also prevent harm to adults? If God intervened and prevented harm every time that harm was about to occur that would upset the entire order in the world and make our purpose for being here null and void. Humans would be reduced to puppets in a string and have no responsibility for their own behavior. Humans would never have the opportunity to learn from their mistakes. Other humans would not have the opportunity to help others and become better people if God prevented all harm.

Fair enough, easy enough to understand your answer. I wouldn't worship such a being even if I thought it existed.

Further to the question... is there limits to free will? Why doesn't an abused child get to exercise their free will and escape to a safe place?

 

[CG Didymus]

It's what any intelligent, loving compassionate being would do. But to be unnecessarily clear, I don't believe your god or any other god is anything other than a man made concept.

Of course God-believers have to defend their creation. But all the pain, suffering and injustice is always a good reason to doubt their creation... that God is all-loving and compassionate. And what is this God testing? The soul that got stuck in a body that had a brain that made poor decisions in life? What did the soul do? Or did God create the soul with a lower, evil nature along with a higher spiritual nature? Sure seems like people keep reinventing their religions and their Gods.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..all the pain, suffering and injustice is always a good reason to doubt their creation..

..thats is what satan wants us to do .. to lose hope and turn to hedonistic pursuits that will destroy us.

Those with sure knowledge don't lose their faith. They see that the oppression of mankind to each other cannot be changed by putting their faith in ideologies .. only Divine guidance and a quest for righteousness.
Those who G-d blesses with faith, will often be persecuted, but eventually they cannot lose. The oppression and suffering will not persist forever. That is not the will of G-d. He sees all.

 

[Trailblazer]

Further to the question... is there limits to free will? Why doesn't an abused child get to exercise their free will and escape to a safe place?

As I said in my OP, not everything that happens to us is subject to free will. Sometimes we have no choice, whether we are a child or an adult.

 

[John53]

As I said in my OP, not everything that happens to us is subject to free will. Sometimes we have no choice, whether we are a child or an adult.

And that answers your question to me of why do I think it's all an excuse. God could but he doesn't although sometimes he does. Hopefully there's no need for me to add that I don't believe in this God.

 

[Trailblazer]

And that answers your question to me of why do I think it's all an excuse. God could but he doesn't although sometimes he does. Hopefully there's no need for me to add that I don't believe in this God.

An Almighty God, the creator of the universe, needs no excuses for what He chooses not to do.
That is logic 101 stuff.

 

[ppp]

An Almighty God, the creator of the universe, needs no excuses for what He chooses not to do.
That is logic 101 stuff.

That is literally not logic of any kind.

 

[John53]

An Almighty God, the creator of the universe, needs no excuses for what He chooses not to do.
That is logic 101 stuff.

You're correct, in my opinion an almighty god wouldn't need excuses because he wouldn't make such a ridiculously flawed system. However followers of a flawed man made concept would need excuses to justify the lack of evidence for what they wish to be true.

 

[CG Didymus]

..thats is what satan wants us to do .. to lose hope and turn to hedonistic pursuits that will destroy us.

Those with sure knowledge don't lose their faith. They see that the oppression of mankind to each other cannot be changed by putting their faith in ideologies .. only Divine guidance and a quest for righteousness.
Those who G-d blesses with faith, will often be persecuted, but eventually they cannot lose. The oppression and suffering will not persist forever. That is not the will of G-d. He sees all.

Okay, if I listen to Baha'is there is no satan. If I listen to Christians... Islam and the Baha'i Faith are false and part of satan's lie. All of those people in those religions have "sure" knowledge. And the oppression and suffering will not persist forever? Then God can and will make a world without suffering? When? Or is it just a promise religions keep putting out there... Someday God will punish the evil doers and reward the righteous?

 

[Trailblazer]

You're correct, in my opinion an almighty god wouldn't need excuses because he wouldn't make such a ridiculously flawed system. However followers of a flawed man made concept would need excuses to justify the lack of evidence for what they wish to be true.

In my opinion an Almighty God wouldn't need excuses because he wouldn't EVER make any mistakes. God is not only Omnipotent, God is Infallible. An Infallible God cannot make mistakes.

Atheists who think that God makes mistakes believe that know more than God about what God should do but that is logically impossible since God is All-Knowing and no human is All-Knowing.