If Devout Jews rule Israel: Should Shabbath breakers be killed?

[ether-ore]

Does that new covenant include the breaking of the heads of sabbath violators and apostates?


Or that was injustice from Torah?

Under the old Mosaic law, justice required that the prescribed penalty for breaking that law be administered immediately. Under the new covenant and because of the atonement, repentance is granted. The penalty for not repenting is expulsion from the Lord's presence, what is referred to as the second death or spiritual death.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Until messianic days, it doesn't matter who rules Israel, as there is no proper court which can carry forth biblical commandments on a capital level. So, "no."

No, "devout Jews" would not be permitted to kill Sabbath breakers or any other Law breakers. The court system necessary for killing Law breakers is impossible to establish without the Messiah's aid and by then there would be no Law breakers.

I always find these you-deserve-to-be-killed-but-technically-we-really-can't-do-it-right-now serve only to sidestep the question of whether violating Shabbat should be deemed a capital offense warranting a death sentence.

 

[Tumah]

I always find these you-deserve-to-be-killed-but-technically-we-really-can't-do-it-right-now serve only to sidestep the question of whether violating Shabbat should be deemed a capital offense warranting a death sentence.

Is it, you-deserve-to-be-killed? Is that how Jewish law works? Anyone who breaks a Law deserves to be killed?

 

[rosends]

I always find these you-deserve-to-be-killed-but-technically-we-really-can't-do-it-right-now serve only to sidestep the question of whether violating Shabbat should be deemed a capital offense warranting a death sentence.

How about "according to the full mechanism of the law, no matter what you did, odds are you won't be killed unless God deems it and makes it happen".

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

And Apostates? The Scripture(Torah, i avoid that insultive word "OT") tells us to behead/execute apostates.

If people stone or otherwise kill Sabbath breakers on the Sabbath, do we stone them too or should we wait until the next day or something?

The current Jews in Israel are evil.
Amongst them u find many sabbathbreakers, apostates and homosexuals.
Are u saying they must be cleansed first?

Or their offspring will become devout never breaking commandments?

The government, I would concede, but I don't think it's fair to judge an entire nation because Neti wants to be the next Ezra/Hitler. I mean, amongst many Christians and Muslims, there are sinners ... so what?

But Christ is God revealed to all peoples and his message was a missionary
For this reason, Christ canceled all those teachings of x-mas

Jesus was rather clear he was there for Israel. He even basically called a woman a b---- (female dog) because she wasn't Jewish and was constantly shocked when gentiles showed faith.

But let say there would be now "Jewish State in Israel and Palestine(or Jordan)" , would u agree if the Jewish King/Ruler implemented laws from Torah?

There WERE rulers who tried to be more inclusive. It's just the biblical authors didn't like those people and called them evil.

No, it is not allowed for a Jew to rule the country according to my sect until the Messiah comes.
And also, even if it were allowed, it would not be permitted to harm anyone for not practicing Judaism. So I don't really see much changing from the way it is now.

I have to say, I'm impressed. In Christianity, our "mega super ultra" folks seem to think only the most hateful and spiteful texts are worth God's time and theirs.

I went to a Jewish orthodox school and was taught that when the Messiah does come,there will be automatic peace on Earth....for everyone.

No killing etc

Yeah, essentially, a sign that the Messianic age is that predators and prey will live together in ... well, just look at all the super cute vids on youtube ... already a work in progress

 

[Unification]

http://thehiddenlighthouse.blogspot.com/2009/03/spare_4211.html?m=1

 

[Flankerl]

The government, I would concede, but I don't think it's fair to judge an entire nation because Neti wants to be the next Ezra/Hitler

Equating Ezra and Hitler? Really?

 

[james dixon]

Anyone who advocates the death of another is in violation of the Lords covenant

Ten Commandments

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

6. Thou shalt not kill. [this is the order of the Lord and I see no exceptions]

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

10.Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

What else is there left to say?

 

[james dixon]

For the record, Moses is in the Islamic book as well

Moses in Islam

(c. 1392) –c. 1952BH(c. 1272BCE)),[2]known asMosesin the Hebrew Bible, is considered aprophet, messenger, and leader in Islam.[3]In Islamic tradition instead of introducing a new religion, Moses is regarded by Muslims as teaching and practicing the religion of his predecessors and confirming the scriptures and prophets before him.[4]The Quran states that Moses was sent byGod (Arabic: [[Allah|الله‎]]Allāh) to the Pharaoh of Egypt and the Israelites for guidance and warning. Moses is mentioned more in the Quran than any other individual, and his life is narrated and recounted more than that of any other prophet.[5]According to Islam, all Muslims must have faith in every prophet (nabi) and messengers (rasul) which includes Moses and his brother Aaron(Harun). The Quran states:

Also mention in the Book (the story of) Moses: for he was specially chosen, and he was a messenger (and) a prophet.
And we called him from the right side of Mount (Sinai), and made him draw near to Us, for mystic (converse).
And, out of Our Mercy, We gave him his brother Aaron, (also) a prophet.

— Quran,sura19 (Maryam),ayat51-53[6]

Moses is considered to be a prophetic predecessor to Muhammad. Generally attributed the tale of Moses as a spiritual parallel to the life of Muhammad, considering many aspects of their lives to be shared.[7][8][9]Islamic literature also describes a parallel between their believers and the incidents which occurred in their lifetimes. The exodus of the Israelites from Egypt is considered similar to the migration (hijra) made by the followers of Muhammad.[10]Moses is also believed by Muslims to have foretold the coming of Muhammad, who would be the last prophet.[citation needed]

Moses is also very important in Islam for having been given the revelation of the Torah,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_in_Islam

Let the truth be told

 

[rosends]

6. Thou shalt not kill. [this is the order of the Lord and I see no exceptions]



What else is there left to say?

then how do you resolve what appears to be a contradiction with the laws of Lev 20?
I mean, I can easily do so, but I'm wondering at what your approach is.

 

[Tumah]

What else is there left to say?

That one day you'll read the rest of the Book...?

 

[Useless2015]

For the record, Moses is in the Islamic book as well

Moses in Islam

(c. 1392) –c. 1952BH(c. 1272BCE)),[2]known asMosesin the Hebrew Bible, is considered aprophet, messenger, and leader in Islam.[3]In Islamic tradition instead of introducing a new religion, Moses is regarded by Muslims as teaching and practicing the religion of his predecessors and confirming the scriptures and prophets before him.[4]The Quran states that Moses was sent byGod (Arabic: [[Allah|الله‎]]Allāh) to the Pharaoh of Egypt and the Israelites for guidance and warning. Moses is mentioned more in the Quran than any other individual, and his life is narrated and recounted more than that of any other prophet.[5]According to Islam, all Muslims must have faith in every prophet (nabi) and messengers (rasul) which includes Moses and his brother Aaron(Harun). The Quran states:

Also mention in the Book (the story of) Moses: for he was specially chosen, and he was a messenger (and) a prophet.
And we called him from the right side of Mount (Sinai), and made him draw near to Us, for mystic (converse).
And, out of Our Mercy, We gave him his brother Aaron, (also) a prophet.

— Quran,sura19 (Maryam),ayat51-53[6]

Moses is considered to be a prophetic predecessor to Muhammad. Generally attributed the tale of Moses as a spiritual parallel to the life of Muhammad, considering many aspects of their lives to be shared.[7][8][9]Islamic literature also describes a parallel between their believers and the incidents which occurred in their lifetimes. The exodus of the Israelites from Egypt is considered similar to the migration (hijra) made by the followers of Muhammad.[10]Moses is also believed by Muslims to have foretold the coming of Muhammad, who would be the last prophet.[citation needed]

Moses is also very important in Islam for having been given the revelation of the Torah,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_in_Islam

Let the truth be told

Also in the Quran:

We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person - unless it be in retaliation for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew all mankind: and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all humanity.

 

[Jumi]

Indeed cause now we live in a much better world.Nowadays you get killed for being born in the wrong place. What a wonderful world

It's always been like that. But do you think also people should be killed for working on sundays?

 

[james dixon]

then how do you resolve what appears to be a contradiction with the laws of Lev 20?

Written Scripture has been translated numerous times over the centuries and in my view the original term did not mean "kill" which is a contradiction of the Lord's commandments

[QUOTE="rosends, post: 4552232, member: 55734]"I mean, I can easily do so, but I'm wondering at what your approach is.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure what you mean by "your approach"? Please explain

 

[james dixon]

Now that I am a "premium member" does that mean my true identity and place where I live can be accessed by others?

just asking

 

[Flankerl]

6. Thou shalt not kill. [this is the order of the Lord and I see no exceptions]

How do you end the life of an animal to eat it without killing it?

 

[rosends]

Written Scripture has been translated numerous times over the centuries and in my view the original term did not mean "kill" which is a contradiction of the Lord's commandments



I am not sure what you mean by "your approach"? Please explain

So the text that you quoted was inaccurate. OK, that works.

 

[james dixon]

That one day you'll read the rest of the Book...?

I attended a Catholic school up to the third grade and all I was told is what is in the New Testament. It was not until I was in my 50’s that I started reading the Old as a past time. Now in my old age I know that the Old is where it all began. Now I can say, I have read the Bible cover to cover; how about you?

 

[james dixon]

How do you end the life of an animal to eat it without killing it?

In my view there are exception for every rule. To kill in self defense is one and to kill to sustain ones own life is another. If you feel I am wrong please correct me

I guess one can be a vegetarian

I think it means to kill one of your own kind

 

[rosends]

In my view there are exception for every rule. To kill in self defense is one and to kill to sustain ones own life is another. If you feel I am wrong please correct me

wait, what?
"
james dixon said: ↑
6. Thou shalt not kill. [this is the order of the Lord and I see no exceptions]"