if God is all love where does evil come from?

[methylatedghosts]

“Some people love daytime soaps”

The soaps was intended to be a joke.

Exactly! ^_^

“Some people think flinging live kittens is fun”

Regardless of what some people think that does not make throwing kittens into traffic right. Do you really approve of this action?

Never said it made it "right" either.

“Hitler thought killing a whole lot of people was "good". Many people agreed. Many people disagreed. How can anyone say it was one or the other way, and be certain that they're right.”

“Hitler thought”

I would never base my understanding of morality on what “Hitler thought”.

Then you are missing half of this concept of morality if you do not consider the so-called "evil" side - remember there are 2 sides to every story, who's to say he wasn't? Who's to say he was?

“Many people agreed. Many people disagreed. How can anyone say it was one or the other way, and be certain that they're right

.”

People can be quite stupid from time to time. I agree there however that does not place them on the side of being morally good. It only makes them human and acceptable to error. Simply because the terrorist of 9 – 11 thought they were in the just that does not make their attack a good deed. To be morally good compliance with and compassion for other souls is needed. The ability to recognize between what is good and what is evil rest in out ability to reason combined with our capacity for compassion. And while morality may not always be black and white that does not mean it is non existent.

Those terrorists certainly knew in their hearts it was a good deed.

“We have all the tools we need to make an informed decision about living in a place without volcanoes, or without earthquakes or without flooding. How do you know that those tools weren't god-inspired? Wouldn't that count as "helping out"? You see - people ask god for many things, but the reply is either ignored, misunderstood, or people just simply don't listen out for a reply. Some people go so far as to get a reply, but then disagree with it and do their own things anyway. But people are living on volcano bases and along fault lines, and these people have plenty information regarding natural disasters - yet they still remain and then blame god for not helping out when they get struck by an earthquake. Stupidity, if you ask me.”


“We have all the tools we need to make an informed decision about living in a place”

We have some tools now but that was not always the case.

Perhaps. But we still had the capacity to recognise that if a mountain exploded it might not be safe to live there. Over summer, I live in an area that has alot of volcanic activity. In fact, our neighbours paddock erupted only 2 years ago in a big mud explosion, flinging mud 4-5 metres in the air. I work at a geothermal tourist park, which could erupt at any time. On the way I drive past at least one dormant volcano. Within only a few hours drive south and 1 hrs drive north I can get to 6 different volcanoes, and 3 lakes that are filled eruption craters. We also get around 4-5 earthquakes per year that we can actually feel (never mind the countless ones that we don't feel). If any of these erupt, it isn't God's fault I'm buried in ash and mud, it is merely my own for living there. I know these risks are there, but the area is just spectacularly beautiful I like living there. And I know a building might crash on top of me during an earthquake, but that doesn't make it God's fault. None of these things are God's fault - they just happen. If anyone's at fault, it'd be mine for living in a place that might be dangerous. Yet, I am comfortable with that. I'm happy to take whatever blame for that. God does not make eruptions, earthquakes, cyclones or tidal waves. They just happen.

“How do you know that those tools weren't god-inspired?”

How do you know they were God inspired?

I don't I'm just suggesting that it could be an option

“Wouldn't that count as "helping out"?”

Well gee it was so nice of him to be so speedy about it.

Having the smarts to move away from a volcano is a tool, no?

“You see - people ask god for many things, but the reply is either ignored, misunderstood, or people just simply don't listen out for a reply”

Or perhaps there simply are no gods listening and everything we have achieved has been by our own hands.

Perhaps.

“But people are living on volcano bases and along fault lines, and these people have plenty information regarding natural disasters - yet they still remain and then blame god for not helping out when they get struck by an earthquake. Stupidity, if you ask me.”

Not everyone has the means to move. Remember the children? Beside nowhere is completely safe from Mother Nature.

So why blame god for mother nature?

“I had no idea that cancer could be "evil"”

It is even more evil than the AK-47.

Damn those terrorists!!
Damn those cigarettes - they must be even more "evil" seeing as they cause cancer. And the sun!! The most "evil" creation of all, burning us with it's UV rays causing skin cancer!

 

[Jeremiah]

Never said it made it "right" either.

Then you are missing half of this concept of morality if you do not consider the so-called "evil" side - remember there are 2 sides to every story, who's to say he wasn't? Who's to say he was?

Those terrorists certainly knew in their hearts it was a good deed.


Perhaps. But we still had the capacity to recognise that if a mountain exploded it might not be safe to live there. Over summer, I live in an area that has alot of volcanic activity. In fact, our neighbours paddock erupted only 2 years ago in a big mud explosion, flinging mud 4-5 metres in the air. I work at a geothermal tourist park, which could erupt at any time. On the way I drive past at least one dormant volcano. Within only a few hours drive south and 1 hrs drive north I can get to 6 different volcanoes, and 3 lakes that are filled eruption craters. We also get around 4-5 earthquakes per year that we can actually feel (never mind the countless ones that we don't feel). If any of these erupt, it isn't God's fault I'm buried in ash and mud, it is merely my own for living there. I know these risks are there, but the area is just spectacularly beautiful I like living there. And I know a building might crash on top of me during an earthquake, but that doesn't make it God's fault. None of these things are God's fault - they just happen. If anyone's at fault, it'd be mine for living in a place that might be dangerous. Yet, I am comfortable with that. I'm happy to take whatever blame for that. God does not make eruptions, earthquakes, cyclones or tidal waves. They just happen.

I don't I'm just suggesting that it could be an option

Having the smarts to move away from a volcano is a tool, no?

Perhaps.

So why blame god for mother nature?

Damn those terrorists!!
Damn those cigarettes - they must be even more "evil" seeing as they cause cancer. And the sun!! The most "evil" creation of all, burning us with it's UV rays causing skin cancer!

"Never said it made it "right" either."

Then you disapprove of the action? Why? I mean would you stop the person from throwing kittens into traffic if it was in your power to do so? And if so why would you stop that person? Can you tell the difference between right and wrong?


”Then you are missing half of this concept of morality if you do not consider the so-called "evil" side - remember there are 2 sides to every story, who's to say he wasn't? Who's to say he was?”

I am not the one who says evil does not exist than claims there are two sides. I also am not the one who is trying to prove that Hitler was an O.K. guy. I also don’t care about Hitler’s side of the story. It is clear that he was not right in the head. And simply because he was insane that does not make him in the moral right. Killing 11 million people simply because they are different is not a morally good act despite what Hitler thought.

"Perhaps. But we still had the capacity to recognise that if a mountain exploded it might not be safe to live there. Over summer, I live in an area that has alot of volcanic activity. In fact, our neighbours paddock erupted only 2 years ago in a big mud explosion, flinging mud 4-5 metres in the air. I work at a geothermal tourist park, which could erupt at any time. On the way I drive past at least one dormant volcano. Within only a few hours drive south and 1 hrs drive north I can get to 6 different volcanoes, and 3 lakes that are filled eruption craters. We also get around 4-5 earthquakes per year that we can actually feel (never mind the countless ones that we don't feel). If any of these erupt, it isn't God's fault I'm buried in ash and mud, it is merely my own for living there. I know these risks are there, but the area is just spectacularly beautiful I like living there. And I know a building might crash on top of me during an earthquake, but that doesn't make it God's fault. None of these things are God's fault - they just happen. If anyone's at fault, it'd be mine for living in a place that might be dangerous. Yet, I am comfortable with that. I'm happy to take whatever blame for that. God does not make eruptions, earthquakes, cyclones or tidal waves. They just happen.

So why blame god for mother nature?"


Yes I did some reading about your city there. However you do realize you are talking to an atheist right? As far as I am concerned none of it is God's fault. But if you are going to tell me that an all-powerful, all-knowing, benevolent being exist. Than I am going to say that is incongruent with the state of the world. If God truly is all-powerful and does not want people to suffer then why do they?

“Damn those terrorists!!
Damn those cigarettes - they must be even more "evil" seeing as they cause cancer. And the sun!! The most "evil" creation of all, burning us with it's UV rays causing skin cancer!”

I would call big tobacco evil as do many. As far as the AK-47; who said anything about terrorists? I am talking about war and how the AK-47 has made it much easier to have. When a 12 year old boy is shooting down other people in war what weapon do you think he is using? The AK-47 truly is an impressive device of war. But with cancer even a person with 0 risk factors can get cancer not just those who smoke or get to much sunlight (which some sunlight is needed for proper health). However for both death is not the evil I am talking about. The AK-47 is evil because of the opportunity for war it creates. But cancer is evil because of the brutal fashion in which it kills. Now if you don’t think human suffering is a bad thing (aka evil) than we have nothing further to discuss.

It makes me wonder about the morality of religion when people begin to try and project things like Hitler’s massacre and Katrina as good things.

 

[Storm]

Either God is not all-powerful and can not stop the suffering or he simply does not care.

I know that you're addressing a radically different concept of God than mine, but I thought I'd answer anyway.

I'm a panentheist, which in a nutshell means I believe we're all aspects of God. More specifically, we're manifestations of God's search to understand Godself. We suffer that God might suffer, and through that experience, come to understand suffering.

If evil is the absence of God than what about things like earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis and hurricanes?

Are these not acts of God? Do they not cause horrific destruction and suffering? Would that not make God himself evil? Not to mention the undue suffering that happens to the innocent because God decided to create beings with great capacity for evil. He unleashes these unholy humans on the world and does nothing while they kill, rape and loot the innocent; such as children that can not stand up for themselves. Why is God not down here fixing this mess he created? Why pardon the "creator of everything" of the blame of doing such a **** poor job? God should get off his gigantic, lazy rear end and get down here and make with the miracles.

What was that..."The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" Well God sure the heck is doing a whole lot of nothing.

Like suffering, our capacity for evil is God's exploration of the concept, a necessary phase in God's Becoming. As is our struggle for morality. I like to think that eventually, God will decide that it wants to be what we would consider "good," and evil and suffering will cease. However, I also believe that this is a process that will take a long time, and I mean a long time in astronomical terms.

I could go on, but that's enough to start a conversation, if you're interested.

 

[methylatedghosts]

"Never said it made it "right" either."

Then you disapprove of the action? Why? I mean would you stop the person from throwing kittens into traffic if it was in your power to do so? And if so why would you stop that person? Can you tell the difference between right and wrong?

It simply is an action. I disagree with it, but that doesn't make it a "wrong" act.

”Then you are missing half of this concept of morality if you do not consider the so-called "evil" side - remember there are 2 sides to every story, who's to say he wasn't? Who's to say he was?”

I am not the one who says evil does not exist than claims there are two sides. I also am not the one who is trying to prove that Hitler was an O.K. guy. I also don’t care about Hitler’s side of the story. It is clear that he was not right in the head. And simply because he was insane that does not make him in the moral right. Killing 11 million people simply because they are different is not a morally good act despite what Hitler thought.

Killing 11 million people simply because they are different is not a morally bad act, despite what you think

There ARE two sides at least, to every story. There are at least 2 accounts of Nazi Germany, and what happened. There are at least 2 accounts of what happened on the 11th of September. This doesn't mean that I'm saying there is good or evil, though, I'm simply saying that there are 2 sides to a story. If you don't consider both sides fully, then you cannot make an accurate judgment of good or bad to begin with. I make no such judgement - but I think you do, so I feel that not considering the other story severely hinders an accurate judgement in the matter.

Also, remember a sane person can be declared insane by an insane society

"Perhaps. But we still had the capacity to recognise that if a mountain exploded it might not be safe to live there. Over summer, I live in an area that has alot of volcanic activity. In fact, our neighbours paddock erupted only 2 years ago in a big mud explosion, flinging mud 4-5 metres in the air. I work at a geothermal tourist park, which could erupt at any time. On the way I drive past at least one dormant volcano. Within only a few hours drive south and 1 hrs drive north I can get to 6 different volcanoes, and 3 lakes that are filled eruption craters. We also get around 4-5 earthquakes per year that we can actually feel (never mind the countless ones that we don't feel). If any of these erupt, it isn't God's fault I'm buried in ash and mud, it is merely my own for living there. I know these risks are there, but the area is just spectacularly beautiful I like living there. And I know a building might crash on top of me during an earthquake, but that doesn't make it God's fault. None of these things are God's fault - they just happen. If anyone's at fault, it'd be mine for living in a place that might be dangerous. Yet, I am comfortable with that. I'm happy to take whatever blame for that. God does not make eruptions, earthquakes, cyclones or tidal waves. They just happen.

So why blame god for mother nature?"

Yes I did some reading about your city there. However you do realize you are talking to an atheist right? As far as I am concerned none of it is God's fault. But if you are going to tell me that an all-powerful, all-knowing, benevolent being exist. Than I am going to say that is incongruent with the state of the world. If God truly is all-powerful and does not want people to suffer then why do they?

Right, I must have gotten an impression that you weren't athiestic from somewhere else lol.

You know what - you and I are talking about an entirely different concept of God here.

“Damn those terrorists!!
Damn those cigarettes - they must be even more "evil" seeing as they cause cancer. And the sun!! The most "evil" creation of all, burning us with it's UV rays causing skin cancer!”

I would call big tobacco evil as do many. As far as the AK-47; who said anything about terrorists? I am talking about war and how the AK-47 has made it much easier to have. When a 12 year old boy is shooting down other people in war what weapon do you think he is using? The AK-47 truly is an impressive device of war. But with cancer even a person with 0 risk factors can get cancer not just those who smoke or get to much sunlight (which some sunlight is needed for proper health). However for both death is not the evil I am talking about. The AK-47 is evil because of the opportunity for war it creates. But cancer is evil because of the brutal fashion in which it kills. Now if you don’t think human suffering is a bad thing (aka evil) than we have nothing further to discuss.

Oh, the "damn those terrorists" was a joke intended towards the cancer
We can have war without the AK-47 though. The AK-47 is simply an object, a tool. You can go hunting with an AK-47 if you needed to, so that you could eat. That makes it "good", does it not? Yet you say it is "evil", because it could be used to kill people, or aid in war. Can't it be neither, and simply.... be? Simply exist?

I don't think suffering is a "bad" or "evil" thing. Neither do I think it is a "good" thing. Suffering is simply that - suffering.

It makes me wonder about the morality of religion when people begin to try and project things like Hitler’s massacre and Katrina as good things.

I have no religion, and I don't call Nazi Germany or Katrina "good". Neither do I call it "bad"

I can however tell you why there is "good" in Nazi Germany.
- Gave us, as the human race, the opportunity to learn from it - to decide who we were relative to the events surrounding Hitler's come to power.
- Gave other nations the opportunity to "show their true colours" - to show what they stood for, and to see who could be trusted to rise up against a nation that invades another.
- Created stronger alliances between other countries

What was "bad" about it:
- It took the invasion of another country before others actively stood up and said "no, we don't agree with this"
- 11million (or whatever the number is) Jews had to be killed before the regime was finally stopped.

etc etc etc.
And.. I don't know all that much about Katrina - but what "good" can come from extreme weather?

- New friendships - finally talking to the neighbours you ignored for so long.
- Money siphoned away from pointless things such as war, and channelled into rebuilding a community.
- A new sense of bonded-ness between people within affected communities - secure in the knowledge that if something happened again, they could rely on each other for support.

etc etc etc

There is "good" in every thing. You simply need to look for it. It's just an amusing concept to me to call a hurricane "evil" - it's kinda hard to stand there and disagree with it - all the disagreeing in the world isn't going to stop it lol.

Oh dear - now I've got an image of Gandalf on a beach with an oncoming hurricane, saying "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!" XD

 

[want to be hindu]

I like to believe that their are Angels and Devils in all of us. If we feed the angels (ie live good lives,think good thoughts,feed the poor ect) The Angels will get stronger and stronger till we live like Angels or children of God. If we feed the devils in us ( act selfish and hurt others ) the reverse happens and we act like devils and turn our world around us in to Hell.

 

[gnostic]

If evil doesn't have matter, then good doesn't have matter too. Do you seriously think that you

Good and evil only exist from human perspective, and don't exist beyond that.

Love is also have no matter. You can't bottle evil, then you also can't put goodness or love in a bottle.

Good and evil, love and hate, don't exist anywhere except in the hearts and mind of human.

The same goes for God. He don't exist, so you can't put him in a bottle.

What a silly notion.

 

[Heneni]

If evil doesn't have matter, then good doesn't have matter too. Do you seriously think that you

Good and evil only exist from human perspective, and don't exist beyond that.

Love is also have no matter. You can't bottle evil, then you also can't put goodness or love in a bottle.

Good and evil, love and hate, don't exist anywhere except in the hearts and mind of human.

The same goes for God. He don't exist, so you can't put him in a bottle.

What a silly notion.

I want to congratulate you on getting it.

Evil is NOT created, good is NOT created. Its not a creation. When god created satan, he did not create evil.

 

[AK4]

I want to congratulate you on getting it.

Evil is NOT created, good is NOT created. Its not a creation. When god created satan, he did not create evil.

So you are basically saying no feeling or emotion has no creation either. Okay, so where do they come from? Our minds? How did they get there? "Out of the Blue"? Were they just thought up without a cause? Did man just make them up? if so, then guess what, they where created.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

well a simple question if God created all and is love where does Evil come from.,
why not just destroy it all and start again?,

what right does he have to watch millions of children suffer?,

i can not justify that and that would be my first question when i stand before him/her with my head up no grovelling. i just need the justification from his/ her lips...

You are asking an invalid question in terms of the God of the Bible. He posses more than just one characteristic.

 

[emiliano]

if you are going to tell me that an all-powerful, all-knowing, benevolent being exist. Than I am going to say that is incongruent with the state of the world. If God truly is all-powerful and does not want people to suffer then why do they? [/color]

Have you consider that God is not all there is in this world, What would be necessary to prevent suffering in this world of our? Most suffering are inflicted by man, what would you like to see God doing? We believe that God has already created a better place for us, a kingdom that is nothing like this world that you dislike so much, we are told to live in this world as foreigners and not be part of it, to seek God’s kingdom, that is the place where there will be no suffering, that is the kingdom where God alone rules, Does God rule your life? What demonstration would you like God to do on you?

 

[Storm]

Evil comes from the absence of God/love.

I'm confused. You've described yourself to me as a panentheist*. How, then, can God be absent from anything?

* Of course, you simultaneously described yourself as a theist, and I'm still not sure how you reconcile the two....

 

[gnostic]

So you are basically saying no feeling or emotion has no creation either. Okay, so where do they come from? Our minds? How did they get there? "Out of the Blue"? Were they just thought up without a cause? Did man just make them up? if so, then guess what, they where created.

Look at it this way.

If you take out all the humans as a factor, would there be still good and evil on earth?

Is the sun good or evil? Is the sea good or evil? Both (sea and sun) can be good for life, but both can take life away.

Only humans think in term of good and evil? And seeing that God is a thinking being, he can be creator and destroyer, good and evil.

If you believe in God and what it say in the bible, then he created life, but he also caused widespread death (eg. Flood, the killing of Egyptian first-born). God didn't spare an infant or child if he was first-born.

David and Bathsheba had committed adultery and were guilty (and David had arranged that her husband to die), and yet it was their son who pay the price. It was God's choice that the child would die. Tell what sin did their son commit that deserve death?

To me, willfully killing a child is always considered evil to me, regardless if it is human or god who takes a life.

 

[Jeremiah]

I know that you're addressing a radically different concept of God than mine, but I thought I'd answer anyway.

I'm a panentheist, which in a nutshell means I believe we're all aspects of God. More specifically, we're manifestations of God's search to understand Godself. We suffer that God might suffer, and through that experience, come to understand suffering.


Like suffering, our capacity for evil is God's exploration of the concept, a necessary phase in God's Becoming. As is our struggle for morality. I like to think that eventually, God will decide that it wants to be what we would consider "good," and evil and suffering will cease. However, I also believe that this is a process that will take a long time, and I mean a long time in astronomical terms.

I could go on, but that's enough to start a conversation, if you're interested.

Hi Storm.

It seems we are neighbors now. I just moved to Beaverton.

“I know that you're addressing a radically different concept of God than mine,”

Ya, the problem of evil was a conclusion that given the state of the world it is very unlikely that an all-powerful, benevolent god exist. It does not apply to all gods. Really I don’t care about disproving God though. Just want more thought then “evil is the absence of God.”

“I'm a panentheist, which in a nutshell means I believe we're all aspects of God. More specifically, we're manifestations of God's search to understand Godself. We suffer that God might suffer, and through that experience, come to understand suffering.


Like suffering, our capacity for evil is God's exploration of the concept, a necessary phase in God's Becoming. As is our struggle for morality. I like to think that eventually, God will decide that it wants to be what we would consider "good," and evil and suffering will cease. However, I also believe that this is a process that will take a long time, and I mean a long time in astronomical terms.”


As an atheist I believe suffering is the unfortunate side effect of life. While I understand that suffering is unavoidable I feel that we could do more too easy it. However I suppose if you say suffering is how this god comes to know suffering. Then would it be reasonable to say that compassion as a response to suffering is how this god comes to know compassion? In truth though I hope that evil and suffering never be completely gone from humankind. When we no longer have sorrow and pain then we are no longer human.

Ever heard of Bill Hicks? He believed in a god not to much unlike yours; unless I am mistaken.

“…we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream in which we are the imagination of ourselves…” – Bill Hicks

 

[zenzero]

Friend hoojah,
Personally God/ Satan, good/bad, day/night are all dualities; which go together. Drop one the other too drops.
Love & rgds

 

[Jeremiah]

Have you consider that God is not all there is in this world, What would be necessary to prevent suffering in this world of our? Most suffering are inflicted by man, what would you like to see God doing? We believe that God has already created a better place for us, a kingdom that is nothing like this world that you dislike so much, we are told to live in this world as foreigners and not be part of it, to seek God’s kingdom, that is the place where there will be no suffering, that is the kingdom where God alone rules, Does God rule your life? What demonstration would you like God to do on you?

“Have you consider that God is not all there is in this world, What would be necessary to prevent suffering in this world of our?”

I would imagine it would be less than a thought for an all-powerful god.


“Most suffering are inflicted by man”

Most of what I posted was not inflicted by man. While man does contribute to his own pain he is not alone in this endeavor. A great deal of our pain is out of our control. The fact that we have an inherent fear of death and the foresight of death is proof of the harsh world we live in. (Side note: Overcoming fear of one’s own death is the simpler it’s dealing with the eventual death of loved ones that is truly hard. The only way to prevent this pain is to kill yourself and in turn cause your loved ones pain from your death.)

“To perceive is to suffer” - Aristotle.


“what would you like to see God doing?”

Well for starters a cure for cancer would be nice. He could also stop destroying our cities with tornados and what not.

“Does God rule your life?”

No, I am an atheist.

“What demonstration would you like God to do on you?”

A handshake and a smile from the man himself is a good start.

 

[emiliano]

Jeremiah,

I would imagine it would be less than a thought for an all-powerful god.

That’s the problem, God act at various times as the Almighty God that He is, I discussed two of His powerful actions in this board, I see God’s actions as the best possible and the most effective, this is looking at the end result, I got a series of allegedly better solutions, I am glad that you realise that He always execute the right action and it doesn’t take Him a great effort, that you can trust Him.

Most of what I posted was not inflicted by man. While man does contribute to his own pain he is not alone in this endeavor.

In that case let go back to the original state of the world, what do you think this state to be before man’s civilization? Good? Bad? What do you think of the commandment not to covet? Would you say that obedience to this commandment would have avoided the formation this world that you see as so mess up? What do you think of the floods?

Well for starters a cure for cancer would be nice. He could also stop destroying our cities with tornados and what not.

But Jeremiah, cancer is already a curable disease, and not only that, it is a preventable one. And if we go back to the caves and stopt polluting the atmosphere for several centuries, then the climatic system will heal itself,are you willing?
We Christians believe that God already have a world where there will be no death, disease, sufferings, injustice, etc. The problem seems to be that not all human being that ever lived are going to be part of the Kingdom of God.

A handshake and a smile from the man himself is a good start.

Do you believe that He can do this?
What if He doesn’t like you?
I would recommend to you that you fall on your knee and asking Him for mercy?

 

[Storm]

Hi Storm.

It seems we are neighbors now. I just moved to Beaverton.

Cool. We'll have to get together for coffee sometime.

However I suppose if you say suffering is how this god comes to know suffering. Then would it be reasonable to say that compassion as a response to suffering is how this god comes to know compassion?

Yes.

Ever heard of Bill Hicks? He believed in a god not to much unlike yours; unless I am mistaken.

I think I've heard the name, but I'm unfamiliar with his work.

“…we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream in which we are the imagination of ourselves…” – Bill Hicks

I like that.

 

[Jeremiah]

Jeremiah,

That’s the problem, God act at various times as the Almighty God that He is, I discussed two of His powerful actions in this board, I see God’s actions as the best possible and the most effective, this is looking at the end result, I got a series of allegedly better solutions, I am glad that you realise that He always execute the right action and it doesn’t take Him a great effort, that you can trust Him.

In that case let go back to the original state of the world, what do you think this state to be before man’s civilization? Good? Bad? What do you think of the commandment not to covet? Would you say that obedience to this commandment would have avoided the formation this world that you see as so mess up? What do you think of the floods?

But Jeremiah, cancer is already a curable disease, and not only that, it is a preventable one. And if we go back to the caves and stopt polluting the atmosphere for several centuries, then the climatic system will heal itself,are you willing?
We Christians believe that God already have a world where there will be no death, disease, sufferings, injustice, etc. The problem seems to be that not all human being that ever lived are going to be part of the Kingdom of God.

Do you believe that He can do this?
What if He doesn’t like you?
I would recommend to you that you fall on your knee and asking Him for mercy?

“That’s the problem, God act at various times as the Almighty God that He is, I discussed two of His powerful actions in this board, I see God’s actions as the best possible and the most effective, this is looking at the end result, I got a series of allegedly better solutions, I am glad that you realise that He always execute the right action and it doesn’t take Him a great effort, that you can trust Him.”

It seems to me that for an all-powerful being it would be just as easy to reach a goal without suffering as it would be to destroy all the stars in the sky and recreate them. The question of efficiency becomes a moot point with an all-powerful being.

“In that case let go back to the original state of the world, what do you think this state to be before man’s civilization? Good? Bad? What do you think of the commandment not to covet? Would you say that obedience to this commandment would have avoided the formation this world that you see as so mess up? What do you think of the floods?”

“In that case let go back to the original state of the world, what do you think this state to be before man’s civilization? Good? Bad?”

The original state of the world? Civilization is older than your god and we are far better off with it then without in my opinion.

“What do you think of the commandment not to covet?”

I judge people by their actions not their thoughts. We all think things that would shame us. It is how we act on our thoughts and feeling that defines who we are really.

“Would you say that obedience to this commandment would have avoided the formation this world that you see as so mess up?”

No, it’s impossible for a human not to be human. Besides this world is far better then the world that forged that commandment.

“What do you think of the floods?”

Floods are bad. Mmm'k.


“But Jeremiah, cancer is already a curable disease, and not only that, it is a preventable one.”

Depending on the location and the stage of the cancer it may or may not be treatable and cancer is not completely preventable you can only lessen the chance you’ll get cancer. It is estimated that 70% of deaths from cancer were preventable. So if that is the case and in the USA expected people to die this year from cancer is 559,650 * .3 = 167,895 in the USA alone will die from an incurable and unpreventable cancer. Beside the treatments alone can and does kill people. Not exactly what I would call a battle won. But as I said it’s not the fact that cancer kills people it the way in which cancer kills people.

“And if we go back to the caves and stopt polluting the atmosphere for several centuries, then the climatic system will heal itself,are you willing?”

I don’t see any reason to go live in caves.

”We Christians believe that God already have a world where there will be no death, disease, sufferings, injustice, etc. The problem seems to be that not all human being that ever lived are going to be part of the Kingdom of God.”

Yes, I have heard the story before.

“Do you believe that He can do this?”

Would he be all-powerful if he could not?

“What if He doesn’t like you?”

No skin off my teeth.

“I would recommend to you that you fall on your knee and asking Him for mercy?”

Was that a question? I am going to guess no. Sorry that is not going to happen.

 

[ChristineES]

God created the earth, He created it to work and take care of itself. God doesn't directly cause storms and other natural disasters.

 

[Jeremiah]

I think I've heard the name, but I'm unfamiliar with his work.

He was a stand up comedian. He is all over youtube if your interested.