If Jesus Died...

[ppp]

I was not talking about god. I was responding to your claim:

if you forgive me but I continue to hate you I have received no benefits from being forgiven.

If you disagree then identify the false statement.

1. You receive the benefit of not being the subject of my wrath.
2. The benefit of my not imposing my personal vengeance upon you.
3. The benefit of my not subjecting you to the justice system.
4. Both of those are benefits that you receive from my forgiveness.

 

[Clara Tea]

If one takes 1 John 2:2 out of the context of the whole new testament then this is what one may conclude.
But otherwise, Jesus and John the baptist gave directions on how to be saved.


resurrection is not contradiction of death.

definition death - Google Search

The various dictionaries define "death" as the permanent cessation of vital functions. So, he was dead, but he got better.

 

[Clara Tea]

Because it can...if you forgive me but I continue to hate you I have received no benefits from being forgiven.

I wonder what we can trade to gain a forgiveness for war and torture camps?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Though God has the power to force His will upon us, supposedly God allows us to have free will.

I think that our souls are a piece of God. I think that God gives our souls the ability to control us, and only the good souls can return to heaven. The others are jailed in hell.

So, the animal part of us is not in charge of our actions, but our souls can control us.

God forced His will on us when He created the universe He created. Could God have created a universe where I was a believer at this point in my life?

 

[Wildswanderer]

I wonder what we can trade to gain a forgiveness for war and torture camps?

God's forgiveness isn't limited to certain sins. The catch is that repentance must be genuine.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I was not talking about god. I was responding to your claim:


If you disagree then identify the false statement.

1. You receive the benefit of not being the subject of my wrath.
2. The benefit of my not imposing my personal vengeance upon you.
3. The benefit of my not subjecting you to the justice system.
4. Both of those are benefits that you receive from my forgiveness.

Irrelevant to the discussion.. which is God's forgiveness.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

The problem is that we have been tainted by being born from Adam and Eve. We keep making mistakes and are not in harmony with God's purposes.

God can’t troubleshoot?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

You don't understand the difference between knowing and causing.
I can know my child will do wrong, that doesn't mean I caused it by bringing him into the world.

I do know the difference. If God knows what would happen in universe A and knows what would happen in a universe B and He chose to create universe A instead of B then our free will does not exist. Our actions are a result of Gods will not ours. So if in universe A God knew I would be a painter and in universe B He knew I would be a welder and He created universe A then I did not choose to be a painter, God did.

 

[paarsurrey]

The body of Jesus died, and the spirit (Christ) lived on and will return (2nd coming).

Jesus did not die on the Cross, neither bodily nor in spirit. Thomas Didymus checked it and confirmed that his body had wounds inflicted on him on the Cross, spirit has not wounds to put hand into. Right?

Regards

 

[Wildswanderer]

I do know the difference. If God knows what would happen in universe A and knows what would happen in a universe B and He chose to create universe A instead of B then our free will does not exist. Our actions are a result of Gods will not ours. So if in universe A God knew I would be a painter and in universe B He knew I would be a welder and He created universe A then I did not choose to be a painter, God did.

No you still chose, because God didn't cause your choice, you did.
The other choice still was a real possibility for you. God didn't make it impossible...he only knew which one you would go with.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

You are correct in that God has already reconciled Himself to the world. But, as in the beginning, He yields to the free will of man on the basis of love because love can't force itself on a person. It must be free given and freely received.

It happened or it didn’t. Jesus doesn’t go back in time to prevent the crucifixion when he gets upset.

 

[Kenny]

It happened or it didn’t. Jesus doesn’t go back in time to prevent the crucifixion when he gets upset.

To be honest... I really am not following what you are trying to say.

Maybe I said it wrong? I wasn't trying to say he went back in time. (Could be my error in communication)

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

God doesn't want that to happen for He wants all men to be in relationship with Him but He yields to man's will.

Then He should be man enough to accept our decision. You don’t kill someone because they circled B instead of A.

 

[Kenny]

Then He should be man enough to accept our decision. You don’t kill someone because they circled B instead of A.

He doesn't.

If you take your own life, it isn't Him who is taking it. He does accept our decision.

 

[Alien826]

Again you aren't God. You can't compare how you operate with an all knowing being.

And that's how it always ends. Reasonable discussion with atheist (or whatever), Christian runs out of ideas. Retreats to "mysterious ways". I don't know why we don't just start there, it would save a lot of effort.

It is of course a perfectly reasonable argument. If God is so far removed from us in every way, what's the point in trying to understand Him? It's like an ant coming up with all kinds of weird notions of me, based on ant experience of the world. I'd be fine with it if Christians didn't assert so many detailed attributes of God on a daily basis.

(This is my first post here and is something of a test).

 

[ppp]

Irrelevant to the discussion.. which is God's forgiveness.

So basically, the things that you said were irrelevant to the discussion? I suspect that you only deemed them "irrelevant" when they highlighted the problems with your beliefs.

Also I will remind you that it was you who began the comparison of your god to humans to support your position. And when I highlighted the errors in your thinking, it is you that complained that the comparison that you introduced was invalid.

 

[ppp]

Cornflakes (uh oh....he found out).

I mean seriously. Who would want to drink cold pee?!

Once you get into heaven, then what? Spend eternity next to a wrathful God?

That's a different discussion altogether.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

No you still chose, because God didn't cause your choice, you did.
The other choice still was a real possibility for you. God didn't make it impossible...he only knew which one you would go with.

This is the point. God knew what I would choose in each universe. He chose one universe over all others so He chose for me.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's not how he chose to do it. God doesn't forgive the unrepentant.

Do you have any verses to back up that assertion?

 

[Trailblazer]

I bet 1 John 2:2 is quoted a LOT by Christian Universalists.

and Baha'is, since we believe that Jesus died for ALL our sins.