Five Solas
Active Member
Correct. However, Christians live forever...
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
If Jesus Died...
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
Five Solas
Active Member
Sort of correct - but how it actually works is that one becomes intensely aware of your sins when you come to faith that you beg God for forgiveness. That is part of the process of becoming a Christian.
Non-believers don't give a dime...
Five Solas
Active Member
Correct...
Five Solas
Active Member
Weird way of describing it but yes, He got better.
The entire Bible is packed with miraculous events. God is a supernatural being, doing supernatural things in supernatural ways.
Everything God does is supernatural by default because God exists outside of His creation.
Five Solas
Active Member
Correct, however man lost it by sinning.
If your will is so free then choose to stop sinning. Fact: We need salvation because we lost our ability to 'will' to stop sinning.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
We have free will to CHOOSE to sin or not to sin.
Some people choose to sin and some people choose not to sin.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Why is whatever happens determined by God if it is our choice?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Man has not lost free will because man chose to sin. The fact that man chose to sin is proof that man has free will to choose.
Has salvation stopped man from sinning? No, unless you do not consider fornication and adultery sinful, man still sins in spite of the cross sacrifice.
The reason we have the propensity to sin is because we have two natures, a spiritual or higher nature and a material or lower nature, and we can choose to act according to either nature.. All imperfection comes from our physical nature, our spiritual nature is purely good.
In sum, we all have free will, so we can choose to act according to one of our two natures, our spiritual or higher nature and our material or lower nature. If we choose to act according to our lower material nature we will sin. If we choose to act according to our spiritual nature, we will become more spiritual.
“In man there are two natures; his spiritual or higher nature and his material or lower nature. In one he approaches God, in the other he lives for the world alone. Signs of both these natures are to be found in men. In his material aspect he expresses untruth, cruelty and injustice; all these are the outcome of his lower nature. The attributes of his Divine nature are shown forth in love, mercy, kindness, truth and justice, one and all being expressions of his higher nature. Every good habit, every noble quality belongs to man’s spiritual nature, whereas all his imperfections and sinful actions are born of his material nature. If a man’s Divine nature dominates his human nature, we have a saint.” Paris Talks, p. 60
To read more: THE TWO NATURES IN MAN
“The Christ sacrificed Himself so that men might be freed from the imperfections of the physical nature and might become possessed of the virtues of the spiritual nature. This spiritual nature, which came into existence through the bounty of the Divine Reality, is the union of all perfections and appears through the breath of the Holy Spirit. It is the divine perfections; it is light, spirituality, guidance, exaltation, high aspiration, justice, love, grace, kindness to all, philanthropy, the essence of life. It is the reflection of the splendor of the Sun of Reality.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 118
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
I think everyone knows we have limits on how free we are to eliminate every wrong behavior. But if we can, in fact, choose between two options we still have free will. And in theory we could completely stop sinning, if we rely completely on God which is another choice we make.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
All people. The atonement is universal but applied only to those who accept Christ.
cataway
Well-Known Member
that would be by his choice
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
I understand it fine...I just think you are wrong.
The other universe's all exist as possibilities. The reason they aren't real is because we chose certain things in this one. Molinism says God created the best of all possible universes. I came close to being a open theist but couldn't do it. I think understanding that time isn't really a thing for God makes this easier to understand.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
It's more general than that (which I doubt you disagree with). Free will doesn't mean to be able to do anything. I can't (unaided) jump 100 feet in the air for example. We also have limited ability in things that we can do physically, based on our natures. That's not so absolute though. I can choose to "sin" (I hate that word) in a given instance or not and it depends on a lot of factors. As defined by Christianity though, the bar is set so high that it's practically impossible to never "sin".
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I fully agree. Free will does not mean we are free to do anything we might want to do. What we are able to choose is constrained by our physical and mental capacities and our opportunities.
I also hate the word sin. According to the Abrahamic religions we are all sinners because we can never be good enough. I do not need that in my life as I already know what I do that is wrong and I try my best not to do it.
BTW, I see you are new so welcome to the forum. We need more people like you here.
Fallen Prophet
Well-Known Member
Great question.
The Lord Jesus Christ bears many titles because He has accomplished so much.
Two of the titles He bears are Redeemer and Savior.
The title of "Redeemer" refers to the fact that by His death and subsequent Resurrection He has "repurchased" all Mankind from the condition of physical death brought upon us all by the Fall of Adam.
What this means is that all Mankind - regardless of who they are or what they have done - are guaranteed a Resurrection from the dead - thus robbing the grave of victory.
The title of "Savior" refers to the fact that He suffered all the penalties for the sins of Mankind - which suffering began in the Garden of Gethsemane and ended at the time of His death on the cross.
His taking upon Himself the penalties of all the sins of Mankind means that He has collected our "debt" and now has the authority to forgive sin.
However - unlike the universal effects of Redemption - forgiveness of sin is conditional and rests fully upon the individual's willingness to repent and change their behavior.
If He had decided not to take upon Himself the penalties of our sins - then no one would have the ability to repent or be cleansed of sin - therefore - despite our Resurrection - we never could return to live with God - who is perfect, and no unclean thing can dwell in His presence.
The effects of the Fall have been overcome by the Son of God - everyone can be free from both sin and death.
The Resurrection is a free gift to all - the victory over physical death - but Salvation is a conditional gift - the victory over spiritual death (sin) depends on the actions of the repentant.
Last edited:
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
I thought that was too obvious to bother mentioning.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
" which suffering began in the Garden of Gethsemane and ended at the time of His death on the cross."
Jesus didn't die on the Cross, so isn't it just a tall talk, please? Right?
Regards
Fallen Prophet
Well-Known Member
Where do you believe He died?
Well, what happens if I do not accept it.? Usually, if I do not accept a gift from my friend, or anyone else, nothing happens. Someone will might get grumpy, but I will never possibly fear for my safety.
However, I know a friend of mine leaving in South Italy who also had an offer of a gift. If she accept the gift (to accept a local guy as godfather) she will be safe, if not then well, she will not. Made me think of your so-called gift.
Does that apply to your so-called gift, too? Hope not. That wold basically turn meek Jesus into someone with the same moral stature as Al Capone.
Let's test that. Does it also come with consequences if I do not accept it, as with my Italian friend?
Ciao
- viole
