Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
If He doesn’t care about paying bills, repentance is unnecessary.
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If Jesus Died...
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
Five Solas
Active Member
Man lost his free will by choosing to sin.
Now you tell me, why do you not choose to stop sinning if your will is so free. If you can choose to stop sinning you are in no need of salvation...
Five Solas
Active Member
So, the clay now prescribes to the potter??
Really?
Five Solas
Active Member
All people are sinners and in need of salvation. That is what scripture teaches.
No person can choose to sin no more. There is no free will - s will yes, but no free will...
Five Solas
Active Member
That would imply that "in theory" we can save ourselves by stopping to sin. That is not what Scripture teaches. It teaches that all are sinners.
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Rom:3:23
Not one could ever make that choice.
We must not fool ourselves...
cataway
Well-Known Member
no he want to know if the bill would be paid
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Is there a restriction? Jesus could live and die anywhere in the world as do others. Right?
But he could not die a cursed death on the Cross if he was truthful Messenger/Prophet of G-d. Right?
Regards
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Free will was given to man by God and it is never lost. When man chooses to sin man is using his free will.
Hypothetically, I could choose to not sin, if I was a saint.
What do you think that salvation was offered for? What were saved from? Do you think it is okay to just keep sinning since Christ died for our sins? Did not Jesus say "go, and sin no more?" (John 8:11)
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
If man did not have free will to choose man could not be held accountable by God for his actions, and these choices include choosing to believe in Christ and choosing to worshiping God.
Question.—Is man a free agent in all his actions, or is he compelled and constrained?
Answer.—This question is one of the most important and abstruse of divine problems. If God wills, another day, at the beginning of dinner, we will undertake the explanation of this subject in detail; now we will explain it briefly, in a few words, as follows. Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.
For example, if he wishes, he can pass his time in praising God, or he can be occupied with other thoughts. He can be an enkindled light through the fire of the love of God, and a philanthropist loving the world, or he can be a hater of mankind, and engrossed with material things. He can be just or cruel. These actions and these deeds are subject to the control of the will of man himself; consequently, he is responsible for them.
Now another question arises. Man is absolutely helpless and dependent, since might and power belong especially to God. Both exaltation and humiliation depend upon the good pleasure and the will of the Most High.
It is said in the New Testament that God is like a potter who makes “one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour.” 1 Now the dishonored vessel has no right to find fault with the potter saying, “Why did you not make me a precious cup, which is passed from hand to hand?” The meaning of this verse is that the states of beings are different. That which is in the lowest state of existence, like the mineral, has no right to complain, saying, “O God, why have You not given me the vegetable perfections?” In the same way, the plant has no right to complain that it has been deprived of the perfections of the animal world. Also it is not befitting for the animal to complain of the want of the human perfections. No, all these things are perfect in their own degree, and they must strive after the perfections of their own degree. The inferior beings, as we have said, have neither the right to, nor the fitness for, the states of the superior perfections. No, their progress must be in their own state.
Also the inaction or the movement of man depend upon the assistance of God. If he is not aided, he is not able to do either good or evil. But when the help of existence comes from the Generous Lord, he is able to do both good and evil; but if the help is cut off, he remains absolutely helpless. This is why in the Holy Books they speak of the help and assistance of God. So this condition is like that of a ship which is moved by the power of the wind or steam; if this power ceases, the ship cannot move at all. Nevertheless, the rudder of the ship turns it to either side, and the power of the steam moves it in the desired direction. If it is directed to the east, it goes to the east; or if it is directed to the west, it goes to the west. This motion does not come from the ship; no, it comes from the wind or the steam.
In the same way, in all the action or inaction of man, he receives power from the help of God; but the choice of good or evil belongs to the man himself. So if a king should appoint someone to be the governor of a city, and should grant him the power of authority, and should show him the paths of justice and injustice according to the laws—if then this governor should commit injustice, although he should act by the authority and power of the king, the latter would be absolved from injustice. But if he should act with justice, he would do it also through the authority of the king, who would be pleased and satisfied.
That is to say, though the choice of good and evil belongs to man, under all circumstances he is dependent upon the sustaining help of life, which comes from the Omnipotent. The Kingdom of God is very great, and all are captives in the grasp of His Power. The servant cannot do anything by his own will; God is powerful, omnipotent, and the Helper of all beings.
This question has become clearly explained. Salutations!
1. Rom. 9:21.
Some Answered Questions, pp. 248-250
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
We have free will but no man can be perfect so in that sense we are all sinners in need of salvation from Christ.
The Christ sacrificed Himself so that men might be freed from the imperfections of the physical nature and might become possessed of the virtues of the spiritual nature. This spiritual nature, which came into existence through the bounty of the Divine Reality, is the union of all perfections and appears through the breath of the Holy Spirit. It is the divine perfections; it is light, spirituality, guidance, exaltation, high aspiration, justice, love, grace, kindness to all, philanthropy, the essence of life. It is the reflection of the splendor of the Sun of Reality.
Some Answered Questions, p. 118
Alien826
No religious beliefs
I fully agree. Free will does not mean we are free to do anything we might want to do. What we are able to choose is constrained by our physical and mental capacities and our opportunities.
I also hate the word sin. According to the Abrahamic religions we are all sinners because we can never be good enough. I do not need that in my life as I already know what I do that is wrong and I try my best not to do it.
BTW, I see you are new so welcome to the forum. We need more people like you here.
Thanks for the welcome! I hope to enjoy my time here and meet some more interesting people.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
Well, when you snooze you lose, I guess!
(Note: Some of what I post is not intended to be taken too seriously. I normally let people work out which is which for themselves.
)
cataway
Well-Known Member
yes there were things that required of him
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Even if we stopped sinning it would not save us. We aren't saved by doing good.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
What about Romans 2?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
But Jesus could not die a cursed death on the Cross if he was a truthful Messenger/Prophet of G-d. Right? No exception to it. Right?
Regards
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Let me ask you: what does Paul mean by obeying unrighteousness? Paul above any writer in the New testament makes clear that we are saved by faith through grace, not of works.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
If Paul disagrees with Jesus who are you going to believe, Paul or Jesus?
How Paul changed the course of Christianity
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Right. Who are the righteous?
"Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness."
Galatians 3:11
Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.”
Source: 28 Bible verses about Righteous By Faith