If you can't believe.....

[JustWondering]

I often see atheists say "Where's your proof of God or any deity, yet they can't disprove it either. I mean, did they roam all over the universe and search for God and came up with nothing? No, so their argument is less effective. Only arguement they have is "He's not in front of my face, so therefore, he must not exist."

Let me get this straight. Your upset with people who do not believe in things that cannot be shown to exist in any way? I don't believe in leprechauns, no one's been able to show any evidence of their existence, but according to your logic I should entertain the possibility of the existence of leprechauns because no one has disproven their existence. With that in mind do you believe everything that someone may believe that has not been disproven may be real, everything? Maybe some kind of creator being exists but I have yet to see anyone present anything to prove they have any real idea if one does exist or what it is like. I don't disbelieve in the "gods" theists have presented to me because I want to, I disbelieve in these "gods" because there is no good reason or evidence to suggest they even exist.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Let me get this straight. Your upset with people who do not believe in things that cannot be shown to exist in any way? I don't believe in leprechauns, no one's been able to show any evidence of their existence, but according to your logic I should entertain the possibility of the existence of leprechauns because no one has disproven their existence. With that in mind do you believe everything that someone may believe that has not been disproven may be real, everything? Maybe some kind of creator being exists but I have yet to see anyone present anything to prove they have any real idea if one does exist or what it is like. I don't disbelieve in the "gods" theists have presented to me because I want to, I disbelieve in these "gods" because there is no good reason or evidence to suggest they even exist.

None of us really know these things for sure. But as far as legends go and legendary creatures or deities, there's always some truth to these legends. Otherwise, they wouldn't be legends to begin with. No atheist has ever succeeded in saying "There God doesn't exist and here's how?" They don't know the answer any more than the other people do. and I find it quite arrogant to just say a deity doesn't exist at all just because there's no proof really. Of course there's a difference between evidence and proof.

Temples and statues suggest that deities were around and perhaps even interacted with humans due to tablets, statues and temples. After all, do you honestly believe they would waste so much time dedicating years of servitude and appreciation to deities that never existed? What makes you think that they weren't on this Earth at one point. No one really knows. I don't pretend to know the answers and declare God doesn't exist when I haven't even traveled through the universe or multiverse. and found nothing.

There's still so many things we haven't even discovered on this planet. We dig up old artifacts, old fossils ect. The Earth is just a very small part of the universe or multiverse, assuming that' we are just one of many universes. Who's to say that just because God isn't in this reality, it doesn't mean he's not in some other reality where he can be reached. I don't dislike atheists in general but some of them have that arrogant flair that bothers me, where if it's not proven by science it must never have existed to begin with.

 

[Jumi]

Curiosity.

 

[JustWondering]

I don't dislike atheists in general but some of them have that arrogant flair that bothers me, where if it's not proven by science it must never have existed to begin with.

Wanting evidence before excepting extraordinary claims is a rational position. Secondly, I think it is arrogant of theists to expect non-believers to entertain and respect their religions extraordinary claims without having to provide evidence or even a well-reasoned argument.

 

[Around]

You would need a belief of some Higher Power.......
BEFORE you have the opportunity to decline of it.

How can you tell?

 

[McBell]

I didn't "assume" that he thought he was irrational. He says that he can't "back up his claims so therefore he's irrational. Did you look at his quotes? Also there is evidence of deities that were once on this planet, aside from the Sumerian tablets, there have been carvings, even skeletons which are clearly not human. I'm sure you've seen those cone headed skulls during those dig ups? Given that some gods wore cone like hats and that there's archaeological evidence showing these skulls, that supports the claim that there were deities on this planet, which I think are aliens. Very powerful and advanced aliens but aliens none the less. You can say they are assumptions and some are but so do have evidence along with it.

Also I try to put some common sense as it makes no sense for humans to be primitive and then all of a sudden gain intelligence enough for civilization despite the fact there are creatures millions of years older than humans and if people believed in evolution, you would think they would have evolved even more than humans. Of course deities are shown to have educated humans in civilization and made them more advanced which is also shown in Sumerian tablets. Also with common sense, it simply makes no sense for people to waste time building statues and temples to deities that never existed in real life? Don't you think it'd be plausible that deities once roamed the earth? Even giants were known to have roamed the earth, and there's evidence for that as well.

Argument from incredulity is not convincing.
You got anything else?

 

[McBell]

I often see atheists say "Where's your proof of God or any deity, yet they can't disprove it either. I mean, did they roam all over the universe and search for God and came up with nothing? No, so their argument is less effective. Only arguement they have is "He's not in front of my face, so therefore, he must not exist."

Is it your claim god exists?
If so, then it is on you to support said claim.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Wanting evidence before excepting extraordinary claims is a rational position. Secondly, I think it is arrogant of theists to expect non-believers to entertain and respect their religions extraordinary claims without having to provide evidence or even a well-reasoned argument.

I said some atheists and then you just say "Theists" as if you're lumping them in all one group. Not all of them are like that and I couldn't care less if someone accepts my beliefs. I learned the most important thing so far in this world: Not everything's as it seems. It may seem strange or impossible but it doesn't mean that it is.

I don't accept every belief but I am open minded enough to at least study it and not just dismiss it as simple fantasy. I at least look it up and don't think that such a race of beings like elves is implausible. Have we found elf fossils. Not to my knowledge but there's still SO many areas of the Earth that we've barely explored and we're still searching for historical stuff.

Is it your claim god exists?
If so, then it is on you to support said claim.

I don't need to if I don't want to. It wouldn't matter if I did because people are more than likely going to believe it to be fantasy unless there's just undeniable proof right in their face and even then some won't accept it because they don't want to.

Of course it all really depends on your definition of a "deity" If one human in this timeline traveled back in time and brought all the advanced technology we use today and introduced it to the Ancient Greeks or Egyptians or Sumerians. They would worship that human as a deity most likely. The ancients wouldn't have been able to comprehend a television or computer or genetic science or nuclear power. They would call it magic and worship them because of their vast knowledge and power. Now imagine aliens coming back in time to ancient history. Can you imagine? They'd be worshipped as deities as well. It depends on who your deity is. Now if an advanced alien came here we probably wouldn't worship them as gods unless they were like Q from Star Trek The Next Generation

 

[Cephus]

I often see atheists say "Where's your proof of God or any deity, yet they can't disprove it either. I mean, did they roam all over the universe and search for God and came up with nothing? No, so their argument is less effective. Only arguement they have is "He's not in front of my face, so therefore, he must not exist."

Nobody has to disprove your claims, it is up to you to prove them in the first place. I also don't have to disprove unicorns or leprechauns. The burden of proof rests solely on the positive claimant.

 

[Bunyip]

Interesting...

I suppose proof is relevant when you are tying to convince someone else you are right.

Evidence requires interpretation, usually interpreted according to our world view.

Then use Rhetoric, Dialectic or Logical arguments to convince one another of some "truth".

Proof is what? A successful argument that's been made. An argument that has yet to be defeated?

I think I often look for the means to defeat an argument that's been offered as proof of someone's position.

When I come across someone who can defeat my argument, it provides an opportunity to learn.

The objective however is to present the argument that can't be defeated.

Then you have your proof?

I was thinking of proof as it is usually defined - that something had been proven. Proof generally relates to math ajd brewing, not science or theology.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Nobody has to disprove your claims, it is up to you to prove them in the first place. I also don't have to disprove unicorns or leprechauns. The burden of proof rests solely on the positive claimant.

This applies to Atheists as well. Otherwise why say God doesn't exist when they can't even provide proof to back up their claims? Theists are supposed to provide proof but not Atheists? It just seems inconsistent. No should pretend to know something they really don't know.

 

[Bunyip]

This applies to Atheists as well.

No, it doesn't. The burden of proof lies with the party making the positive claim.

Otherwise why say God doesn't exist when they can't even provide proof to back up their claims? Theists are supposed to provide proof but not Atheists? It just seems inconsistent. No should pretend to know something they really don't know.

It is important to point this out to you, but nobody is demanding proof - you just need evidence.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

No, it doesn't. The burden of proof lies with the party maling the positive claim.

That's a rather lazy approach. You say it just so they don't have to provide proof. If they really don't think God exists, than there should be some kind of evidence to support such a claim. Then again it all depends what you consider to be a "deity" Like with aliens? There's definitely alien life there. It's not just evidence that comes to play it's common sense. Again with aliens, out of the billions of galaxies, it's seems extremely unlikely we're the only intelligent life form out there. Or why would it be implausible to think that maybe there's a alien race that cannot only manipulate technology but matter as well, right down to the atoms?

I find it to be extraordinary claim to say "No deity exists" And that requires extraordinary evidence, and yet when a theist believes in a deity, they are expected to provide evidence? There's no consistency there.

 

[Bunyip]

That's a rather lazy approach.

Don't be ridiculous - it is a fundamental logical convention. Besides, what could be more lazy than simply claiming an unevidenced immaterial being exists and then demanding that doubters disprove what you have never proven in the first place?.

You say it just so they don't have to provide proof.

No, it is because it is not logically possible to prove the universal non-existence of an immaterial being.

is If they really don't think God exists, than there should be some kind of evidence to support such a claim.

Oh really? Sooooo......what form exactly would evidence that an immaterial being does not exist look like?

Then again it all depends what you consider to be a "deity" Like with aliens? There's definitely alien life there. It's not just evidence that comes to play it's common sense. Again with aliens, out of the billions of galaxies, it's seems extremely unlikely we're the only intelligent life form out there. Or why would it be implausible to think that maybe there's a alien race that cannot only manipulate technology but matter as well, right down to the atoms?

I find it to be extraordinary claim to say "No deity exists" And that requires extraordinary evidence, and yet when a theist believes in a deity, they are expected to provide evidence? There's no consistency there.

Who made that claim? Not atheism.[/quote][/quote]

 

[psychoslice]

Classic question.....
and it always goes back to the beginning.
Science will point the way but cannot help you when you get there.

Back to the singularity.
When you get there.....choose.....
Spirit first?.....or substance?

Your choice.
The rest of your belief system is mounted on the 'point'.

Of course science can't go help you to get there, their not even interested in getting you there. We have no idea what this singularity is, we can call it spiritual or whatever, but we don't know, and if we say we know were kidding ourselves.

 

[Cephus]

This applies to Atheists as well. Otherwise why say God doesn't exist when they can't even provide proof to back up their claims? Theists are supposed to provide proof but not Atheists? It just seems inconsistent. No should pretend to know something they really don't know.

Please quote anywhere where I have said God doesn't exist. I have not. Most atheists do not, and if they do, I invite you to call them on it. I simply reject your claims about gods because you have no evidence that shows that they are real.

 

[Thief]

Of course science can't go help you to get there, their not even interested in getting you there. We have no idea what this singularity is, we can call it spiritual or whatever, but we don't know, and if we say we know were kidding ourselves.

It is the beginning.....see Genesis.

 

[Thief]

Please quote anywhere where I have said God doesn't exist. I have not. Most atheists do not, and if they do, I invite you to call them on it. I simply reject your claims about gods because you have no evidence that shows that they are real.

Unreasonable request.
You should know...I'm calling you on it....
There will be no photo, no fingerprint, no equation and no repeatable experiment.

You have to think about it.

 

[McBell]

Unreasonable request.
You should know...I'm calling you on it....
There will be no photo, no fingerprint, no equation and no repeatable experiment.

You have to think about it.

Yet you provide no evidence, just a Kent Hovind Challenge.

 

[Cephus]

Unreasonable request.
You should know...I'm calling you on it....
There will be no photo, no fingerprint, no equation and no repeatable experiment.

You have to think about it.

It's not an unreasonable request at all, you've simply defined it out of existence and then act proud that you believe something for which you have no evidence. It's actually pretty pathetic.