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Jaymes said:I don't see the point in causing unnecessary suffering because I think something tastes yummy when I'm perfectly capable of an alternative where that doesn't happen.
darkpenguin said:True, there are no rights and wrongs on the subject it's all down to preferance.
I just think the videos are a good eduacational tool for any meat eater, for me it had such an imapact that I have changed my view on meat and the process but I would be kidding myself if I thought that everyone should agree with me!
I don't think it's quite as simple as that. After all, if no one ate meat then none of those animals killed would have ever existed in the first place, and I'm guessing that for at least some aspects of their lives most weren't experiencing undue suffering or anguish.Jaymes said:I don't see the point in causing unnecessary suffering because I think something tastes yummy when I'm perfectly capable of an alternative where that doesn't happen.
Radio Frequency X said:The videos simply don't make an impression on me. Have you ever seen the way a lion rips its prey apart? Or a bear? Or a bunch of Hyenas? Killing is savage. Getting food is savage. Vegetarians prefer killing plants because plants don't have "feelings". Its a well-intended choice I suppose, I just don't appreciate the difference.
darkpenguin said:You seem to be missing the point that the animals you have noted need meat to survive, survive being the operative word here!
We really don't!
Hema said:A lion's digestive tract is three times shorter than ours. They eliminate the meat before it becomes petrified. When we eat it meat it rots in the system and becomes petrified. Our blood feeds off this toxicity. If you leave a tomato and a piece of raw meat on your kitchen counter overnight and check them both the next morning, the meat will already be decaying.
darkpenguin said:You seem to be missing the point that the animals you have noted need meat to survive, survive being the operative word here!
We really don't!
Radio Frequency X said:I need a healthy mix of fruits, vegetables, and meats to be healthy. I want to do more than merely survive. I want to be healthy. So I eat a variety of foods and everything in moderation.
Quoth The Raven said:I'm not a vegetarian, I've killed things myself, and even I think it matters how the animal died. Even if you don't care about the animal for itself - though you might want to consider how you'd prefer to die - an animal that dies in pain makes for really bad meat. Tough as boots. The more stress, the higher the chew factor.
Jaymes said:I don't see the point in causing unnecessary suffering because I think something tastes yummy when I'm perfectly capable of an alternative where that doesn't happen.
JamesThePersian said:This I agree with entirely. I was once a vegetarian until I realised that it didn't do the animals any good at all. Now I'm vegan over 50% of the year for religious reasons and the rest of time I source my meat very carefully indeed. In my opinion the way to improve animal welfare is to increase demand for humanely produced meat and, much as I sympathise with vegetarians, vegatarianism and veganism simply don't do that. (Oh and I've killed and been present at the killing of animals, too, just as an aside).
James
Hema said:Of couse you can eat everything in moderation. However, I am a vegetarian and very healthy. I'm 25 and look like seventeen (which is not good for me at all times). My dad is fifty but looks like thirty-something. Vegetarians are very healthy, probably more so. The antioxidants in fruits and veggies protect us against cancer. Plus they have fiber. Meat does not have these two things. Meat has the bad LDL cholesterol. LDL cholesterol only comes from animal and dairy products. I'm not saying that if you eat meat in moderation you can't still be healthy. You can. I'm saying that vegetarians are very healthy people.
JamesThePersian said:But do you think that the alternative doesn't involve death and suffering? You have the use of pesticides and fertilizers, the clearing of land for farming, draining of wetlands, loss of natural variance in the environment, meaning reductions of foodstuffs and habitats. Just because consuming only vegetables doesn't directly harm animals doesn't mean that it doesn't cause a great deal of harm indirectly. Of course you could advocate a return to hunter gatherer lifestyle, but then you'd pretty much have to eat meat. There really is no way, short of suicide, to avoid harming animals.
James
Radio Frequency X said:Many of the vegetarians I know are sickly because they don't get all the vitamins and minerals that they need from what they eat. Its not that vegetarians can't be healthy, its just that it takes them a lot more effort to get all the nutrients they need to be healthy, and if they don't take the time to figure out how to get those nutrients, they'll look sickly. Just as someone who eats nothing but McDonald's burgers will become obese.
Hema said:I understand but it makes a difference to me. I can sit and enjoy my meal without thinking about how much suffering my meal went through when it was alive. If all the vegetarians became meat eaters the demand would increase and the supply will increase to meet that demand. Even if vegetarians make a small difference, I am happy with that. Even if it's one animal - that one animal will be greatful for its life. Just like if many people are buried under a collapsed building - say all of them died except for one. The rescue team will do all they can to save that one person because that one person's life is valuable. There is a story I remember. Hundreds of starfish had washed up on a beach. One boy started taking them up one by one and threw them back into the sea. Someone passing asked him what he was doing. There were so many on the beach and there was no way that he alone could make a difference. The boy picked up a starfish and threw it into the sea. He said, "You see that starfish? I just made a difference to that starfish."
Hema said:Strange, I'm not sickly. At my previous place of employment, everyone caught the flu but me. This is because fruits and veggies have antioxidants that build the immune system. I know many vegetarians who are perfectly healthy.
Hema said:Strange, I'm not sickly. At my previous place of employment, everyone caught the flu but me. This is because fruits and veggies have antioxidants that build the immune system. I know many vegetarians who are perfectly healthy.
JamesThePersian said:I am certain that by my relatively low consumption of meat and insistance on knowing exactly where what I do eat comes from I make much more of a difference than I did as a vegetarian. People being willing to pay more (much more) for humanely produced meat is something that modern farming does take note of - because at the heart of it it's all about money.
JamesThePersian said:I do too. Incidentally, they are almost all from Buddhist or Hindu cultures where vegetarianism is ingrained in long tradition. Westerners very frequently fare less well because they attempt to eat 'normal' food but without the meat (often with substitutes like soya). Unfortunately that's nowhere near as healthy as more traditional vegetarian diets and many do end up needing supplements as a result, so I can associate with what he said, whilst seeing that it's only a limited part of the whole picture.
James