One would have to explain then why Mt Carmel has blossom abundantly and had the 'Glory of the Lord' (Baha'u'llah), walk upon the slopes.
Guess it must just be a coincidence?
Regards Tony
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Is Baha'u'llah true or false Prophet?
- Thread starter Faithofchristian
- Start date
One would have to explain then why Mt Carmel has blossom abundantly and had the 'Glory of the Lord' (Baha'u'llah), walk upon the slopes.
Guess it must just be a coincidence?
Regards Tony
Thank you for your considered responses. I appreciate the time and effort you have put into considering prophetic verses that refer to Baha'u'llah (the Glory of God) in both Ezekiel and Isaiah.
It is probably no coincidence that these two books are considered Messianic in Judaism with many references to future events.
Messiah in Judaism - Wikipedia
Let's consider Isaiah first. The book is set through the 8th century BC in Judea during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah. Some scholars think he may have prophecised for over 60 years. Shalmaneeser V was determined to subdue the Kingdom of Israel,taking over and destroying Samaria in 722 BC. However as long as Ahaz reigned, the kingdom of Judah was untouched by the Assyrian power. But when Hezekiah gained the throne, he was encouraged to rebel "against the king of Assyria" (2 Kings 18:7) and entered into an alliance with the king of Egypt (Isaiah 30:2-4).
According to the account in 2 Kings 19 an angel of God fell on the Assyrian army and 185,000 of its men were killed in one night. Sennacherib never recovered from the disaster in Judah. He made no more expeditions against either the Southern Levant or Egypt.
The remaining years of Hezekiah's reign were peaceful (2 Chronicles 32:23-29). Isaiah probably lived to its close, and possibly into the reign of Manesseh. The time and manner of his death are not specified in either the Bible or other primary sources. However the Talmud says that he suffered martyrdom by being sawn in two under the orders of Manasseh.
Isaiah - Wikipedia
The book of Isaiah gives warnings of the coming judgement of God against the divided kingdomof Israel and Judah, against other nations and even the world. At various stages Isaiah stresses the future glory of Israel and the coming Messiah. Isaiah looks back to the reign of King David as a sign of future blessedness.
The phrase the 'Glory of the Lord' which refers to Baha'u'llah is mentioned four times in Isaiah:
It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God.
Isaiah 35:2
And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
Isaiah 40:5
Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy reward.
Isaiah 58:8
Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.
Isaiah 60:1
In Isaiah 35:2 reference is made to the future glory of Carmel and Sharon. Carmel is a mountain in Israel that Baha'u'llah visited and also where the Shrine of the Bab is located. Sharon is a costal plain directly to the South of Mount Carmel.
The verses of Isaiah 35 are clearly Messianic and are considered by Christians to refer to the time Christ comes.
Isaiah 35 Commentary - Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Complete)
In fact the whole chapter refers to a time of great propserity for this region and so can not possibly be the time Christ came as the Jews were exiled not long after with the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD and destruction of the Jewish temple.
I have a lot more to say about Isiah 35 and the other verses but will post at a later stage.
Thank you again for posting.
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They surely have beautiful shiny buildings and colourful lush gardens!
Had to reply so the pictures are shown again.
The buildings and garden reflect the Spirit behind the cause.
I see we give you lots of laughs and happy is good. Abdul'baha said "Be Happy, be happy, be full of joy!
Regards Tony
It sounds as if God made another great messianic prophet who is a no body with on influence in today's world. If he's a prophet, then he's not as great as he claimed to be, it means that he's false prophet in this case. If on the other hand he's not a prophet, then he's self-claimed false prophet.
God won't do something as stupid as sending a great great prophet but only has a short term effect to humans!
God won't do something as stupid as sending a great great prophet but only has a short term effect to humans!
God always allows us a period of grace to freely accept the Message.
My guess is the period of grace has not much longer to run.
Regards Tony
God's evaluation of the effect of a true prophet is accurate. That's why He's God. If someone has to send a Great Great prophet with most humans don't even hear his name, either he's a lame god or not a god at all.
If there ever was such a thing as a prophet, he would certainly make a splash. Gee, no more drought, global warming, wars, and the guy would have bulletproof skin for sure. After all, it's an all-powerful God making this guy, isn't it?
Really just a silly whim by historical fiction writers (similar to science fiction). Too bad so many can't separate fact from fiction.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
A prophet is supposed to prophecy. Two world wars, the atomic bomb, television, the internet, man on the moon, The Beatles... did Baha'u'llah predict any of these? Or, as often times happens, you need "spiritual" eyes and ears to understand the vague references that get turned into fulfilled prophecies.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Yes, all the difficulties in the world today, are a punishment for neglecting the Message.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
We just have a different view. As recognition of Truth is the most valuable thing in this world, God has made it purposefully difficult to be known. Only if a people truly and sincerely strive for it, are worthy to recognize it, and follow it. As most people are after worldly desires and are not looking for God, He has not made Himself known to them.
"Whensoever he hath fulfilled the conditions implied in the verse: “Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessing conferred by the words: “In Our ways shall We assuredly guide him.”
Only when the lamp of search, of earnest striving, of longing desire, of passionate devotion, of fervid love, of rapture, and ecstasy, is kindled within the seeker’s heart, and the breeze of His loving-kindness is wafted upon his soul, will the darkness of error be dispelled, the mists of doubts and misgivings be dissipated, and the lights of knowledge and certitude envelop his being. At that hour will the mystic Herald, bearing the joyful tidings of the Spirit, shine forth from the City of God resplendent as the morn, and, through the trumpet-blast of knowledge, will awaken the heart, the soul, and the spirit from the slumber of negligence. Then will the manifold favors and outpouring grace of the holy and everlasting Spirit confer such new life upon the seeker that he will find himself endowed with a new eye, a new ear, a new heart, and a new mind. He will contemplate the manifest signs of the universe, and will penetrate the hidden mysteries of the soul. Gazing with the eye of God, he will perceive within every atom a door that leadeth him to the stations of absolute certitude. He will discover in all things the mysteries of divine Revelation and the evidences of an everlasting manifestation."
- Bahaullah, Book of Certitude
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Beyond me as well. Never understood gullible people. But to each his own. If it helps someone to actually be a better person, less nosy, less intrusive, less violent, more charitable, gentler, more truthful and much much more, then I don't really care about belief. Trouble is it all comes apart when these character traits don't show up, and their opposites, more often than not, prevail. I'm still looking for the answer of how an uninhabited village has Baha'i adherents living there. Maybe they count ghosts.
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Oh, I didn't read about that one. Is their statistics department infallible?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
You'd think truth is truth and easily seen as being the truth. But with religions, nice sounding spiritual truths that not many are going to deny like... love everybody, all people are one, don't tell lies. Then there's "truth" that is only true for believers like... Jesus is God, Moses wrote the Pentateuch, and Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ. Those things are debatable. It's debatable whether or not Jesus fulfilled the Messianic prophecies, let alone being God in the flesh.
Same thing with Baha'u'llah, the things that "prove" he is Christ returned are very debatable. That's not to say he didn't have profound spiritual things to say... Or that the Baha'i Administrative Order gives the Baha'i Faith a much better chance at not crumbly into a hundreds sects, but we're talking about the end of the world, judgement day, Armageddon, casting evil people into hell fire, every eye was going to see the triumphant Jesus on a white horse... the expectations were so great. Baha'u'llah came and went and the world hardly noticed. More than 150 years later, and they still haven't noticed all that much.
Back when I was investigating the exaggeration of number of adherents, I researched it locally. The official website of Bahai Canada listed about 50 Baha'i localities here in western Canada, where I live. I hadn't even heard of some of them even though I live here. Several were incredibly small, and one (at least) was a ghost town. In the exuberance to exaggerate they couldn't even research it, and must have used an old map. Oh well. When you click on the contact for each place, it just takes you back to the Canadiian headquarters and the basic information.
Here in my city of 1.3 million there is one small center. Not sure how many people go to feasts. But it certainly proved to me that the 'myth' about Baha'i exaggeration is no myth at all. Nothing would surprise me any more, and in fairness, i don't think the ordinary adherent on the street would even know this. Wiki has the world population at 6 million, but I seriously doubt if it approaches even a million. Anyone can edit wiki.
So if they have no problem distorting this 'truth' what else can they distort?
The only prophets I accept are the oracles of god Apollo and they've been quiet since the 3rd century so Bahawhatever is very much false in my book.
God never compels. No Message has ever come with bells and whistles. A man that looks like us is placed upon the earth, but holds the power of all that is.
They live a life as an example, all their actions reflect the words they offer and what they offer is the elixer mankind must take.
The rejection of what is offered, is the mind and the world you quote and it is man that has done all this.
The Message will always be available to be implemented in our lives and we can choose to implement the advice, or not. If we do not, we are part of the world and what is happening in it.
Regards Tony
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
I agree. Most prophecies were not literally fulfilled by Bahaullah, but all prophecies symbolically were fulfilled by Him. You think if prophecies were not fulfilled literally, it means they failed, and He is not who He claims to be, but, I accept it, when prophecies symbolically fulfilled.
Indeed Bahaullah exactly replies to what you say:
"Therefore, should a person arise and bring forth a myriad verses, discourses, epistles, and prayers, none of which have been acquired through learning, what conceivable excuse could justify those that reject them, and deprive themselves of the potency of their grace? What answer could they give when once their soul hath ascended and departed from its gloomy temple? Could they seek to justify themselves by saying: “We have clung to a certain tradition, and not having beheld the literal fulfillment thereof, we have therefore raised such cavils against the Embodiments of divine Revelation,
and kept remote from the law of God”? Hast thou not heard that among the reasons why certain Prophets have been designated as Prophets “endowed with constancy” was the revelation of a Book unto them? And yet, how could this people be justified in rejecting the Revealer and Author of so many volumes of verses, and follow the sayings of him who hath foolishly sown the seeds of doubt in the hearts of men, and who, Satan-like, hath risen to lead the people into the paths of perdition and error?
How could they allow such things to deprive them of the light of the Sun of divine bounty?Aside from these things, if these people shun and reject such a divine Soul, such holy Breath, to whom, We wonder, could they cling, to whose face besides His Face could they turn? Yea—“All have a quarter of the Heavens to which they turn.” We have shown thee these two ways; walk thou the way thou choosest. This verily is the truth, and after truth there remaineth naught but error."
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It may be because this was foreseen.
"The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody."
It appears that most people choose to wait until thier limbs will be shaken.
There is no doubt the message of Baha'u'llah will prevail. What we have brought upon ourselves, will be hard times for all of us, no one will escape with the same mindset. Life as we know it will need to and will completely change.
Regards Tony