Is God a man?

[Brian2]

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man...nor a son of man.
1 Samuel 15:29 for he is not a man
Hosea 11:9 I am God and not a man
Job 9:32 For he is not a man

So four times, FOUR, the Tanakh repeats the same teaching. Wouldn't you think that makes it rather important?

You seem to have left out the full quotes and so miss what is being said, but also there is nothing there which says that the Son of God cannot become a man, and still be the Son of God.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..there is nothing there which says that the Son of God cannot become a man, and still be the Son of God.

Err, what??

How can you say you're a monotheist and believe in "the Son of God", as being distinct from God?
What do you mean by this?

 

[Brian2]

Err, what??

How can you say you're a monotheist and believe in "the Son of God", as being distinct from God?
What do you mean by this?

According to the New Testament there is one true God, the Father of Jesus. So the Father and Son are distinct. According to the Bible, the Son was with God and was not created and was just like God in all ways and was in on the action in creating all things.
Jesus said that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him.
If you think about it, it shows that the Son is distinct from His Father and is Divine, of God.

 

[InChrist]

I

As I say, we see what we want to see..

Do you REALLY think that nobody can be "good" except for G-d?
Of course they can ..

36 Then come with them doth Jesus to a place called Gethsemane, and he saith to the disciples, `Sit ye here, till having gone away, I shall pray yonder.'
37 And having taken Peter, and the two sons of Zebedee, he began to be sorrowful, and to be very heavy;
38 then saith he to them, `Exceedingly sorrowful is my soul -- unto death; abide ye here, and watch with me.'

39 And having gone forward a little, he fell on his face, praying, and saying, `My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as Thou.'
- Matthew 26 -

"he fell on his face" i.e. he prostrated

I think people can do good things and be good sometimes, but never be completely good at all times, as Jesus, the Son of God is completely good.

I’m not sure why you included the passage from Matthew, unless you mean to show that because Jesus fell on His face prostrated this somehow shows He’s not God. I’ve said before, that while in the flesh, in His position of a human, Jesus responded to God His Father…from His lowered human position (Philippians 2:7), as any human should.

 

[Trailblazer]

It means they are lying and being deceitful, devilish, unholy, and irreverent to the truth of the one true God; Greving the Spirit of YHWH God.

…. or, sympathetically, extremely misled.

It means they were misled by false Christian doctrines they were taught to believe.
I don't think they believe that on purpose, they were brainwashed.

 

[Trailblazer]

The scriptures reveal Jesus as “good”, the Good Shepherd who went around healing and demonstrating love and truth, the perfect, sinless Lamb of God.
So, if God alone is good and Jesus is good, then Jesus’ words show that He is God.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

 

[muhammad_isa]

According to the New Testament there is one true God, the Father of Jesus..

Yes OUR Father, as Jesus taught (the Lord's Prayer)

So the Father and Son are distinct.

Yes .. G-d is One and unique.

According to the Bible, the Son was with God and was not created..

Mmm .. you refer to the prelude of John, I assume.
You know that Jesus did NOT say/write that, don't you.

..and was just like God in all ways..

No. G-d created mankind. God created Jesus, who is/was a man.
G-d did NOT create Himself, as He is Eternal .. so not like G-d in all ways.

..and was in on the action..

..so I count 2 .. G-d, and Jesus, who was "in on the action".
Since I discovered Islam in my early 20's, it all became clear to me .. things that I could not understand,
such as Jesus being G-d etc. have all fallen into place.

Jesus is/was the Jewish Messiah, and was born of the virgin Mary .. the rest is basically 'Greek'.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I’m not sure why you included the passage from Matthew, unless you mean to show that because Jesus fell on His face prostrated this somehow shows He’s not God..

What it DOES show, is that he prostrated in worship to the One G-d.
The OT also talks about those that bow and prostrate in worship.
i.e. It is not only in the Qur'an

I’ve said before, that while in the flesh, in His position of a human, Jesus responded to God His Father…from His lowered human position (Philippians 2:7), as any human should.

Well, that is a contradiction, isn't it. That is more or less saying that Jesus was "a lesser version of God".
It also implies more than One God i.e. we have Jesus worshiping His Father .. that's 2

 

[InChrist]

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

I previously responded to this, but again…

I think since Jesus highlighted the word “good” that was the point He was addressing, rather than the kneeling or He would have told the young man not to kneel before Him, as various angels told others in the scripture accounts. I think Jesus was asking a rhetorical question to reveal an important truth…

Why do you call me good?’ Jesus answered. ‘No one is good – except God alone."

The scriptures reveal Jesus as “good”, the Good Shepherd who went around healing and demonstrating love and truth, the perfect, sinless Lamb of God.
So, if God alone is good and Jesus is good, then Jesus’ words show that He is God.

 

[InChrist]

T

What it DOES show, is that he prostrated in worship to the One G-d.
The OT also talks about those that bow and prostrate in worship.
i.e. It is not only in the Qur'an


Well, that is a contradiction, isn't it. That is more or less saying that Jesus was "a lesser version of God".
It also implies more than One God i.e. we have Jesus worshiping His Father .. that's 2

The Bible says Jesus purposely lowered Himself to come to earth and become human.

One Godhead comprised of three Eternal Persons.

 

[Trailblazer]

The scriptures reveal Jesus as “good”, the Good Shepherd who went around healing and demonstrating love and truth, the perfect, sinless Lamb of God.
So, if God alone is good and Jesus is good, then Jesus’ words show that He is God.

That is completely illogical, because many people in the world are good, but that does not mean that those people are God.

As I recall, I discussed this verse with my friend @Brian2 some time ago.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

That verse alone shows that Jesus cannot be God, since Jesus differentiated Himself from God in that verse.
Jesus talked about Himself (me) and then He talked about another one (God).

The reason that Jesus said Why callest thou me good? is because Jesus was humbling Himself before God, so Jesus was saying that compared to God He is not good.
As you said there are other scriptures that reveal Jesus as good.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On a logical and scriptural basis Jesus cannot be God because according to scripture God is Sovereign, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, Unchanging, Impassable, Infinite, Omnipresent, Self-Existent, Self-Sufficient, and Immaterial, and Jesus did not have those attributes.

Some of God's other attributes are Good, Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, Patient. Jesus also has these attributes but Jesus was not God the Father because Jesus did not have ALL the attributes of His Father, as listed above.

 

[muhammad_isa]

One Godhead comprised of three Eternal Persons.

Right, so One God, but an explanation of the One God as more than One person.

I'm sure you know that the first commandment in Judaism is not to ascribe partners to G-d.
..so it is in Islam.

This is no coincidence .. ascribing partners effectively means shifting authority to another.
Christianity achieves that through a so-called "New Covenant".

The Law in Judaism and Islam is very similar .. whereas the New Covenant is/was a way for so-called Gentiles to follow God minus the Law.

Almighty God knows best what is in our hearts .. He will judge between us all on the Day of Judgement.
We will not be wronged .. we will be judged by intention, as that is the most important thing.
We are all sinners, and our intentions are not always pure .. but overall they matter more than which tribe we belong to.

 

[Soapy]

You seem to have left out the full quotes and so miss what is being said, but also there is nothing there which says that the Son of God cannot become a man, and still be the Son of God.

Jesus BECAME the Son of God when he was anointed BY GODat the river Jordon.

There is nowhere else in any scriptures before this event where Jesus is declared to be the Son of God.

The Angel Gabriel told the Virgin Mary that her Son WOULD BE CALLED this term… a future event which occurred first time at the river Jordon by God.

Also, Jesus declared of himself that God is his Father when the Jews accused Jesus of ‘making himself equal to God’… a claim Jesus did not make.

Jesus also called some of the Jews ‘Sons of your Father - the devil’! And since we know the devil was from the beginning… were these jews also Sons of the devil from the beginning?

 

[Brian2]

Jesus BECAME the Son of God when he was anointed BY GODat the river Jordon.

There is nowhere else in any scriptures before this event where Jesus is declared to be the Son of God.

The Angel Gabriel told the Virgin Mary that her Son WOULD BE CALLED this term… a future event which occurred first time at the river Jordon by God.

Also, Jesus declared of himself that God is his Father when the Jews accused Jesus of ‘making himself equal to God’… a claim Jesus did not make.

Jesus also called some of the Jews ‘Sons of your Father - the devil’! And since we know the devil was from the beginning… were these jews also Sons of the devil from the beginning?

When Jesus was 12 years old (before His baptism) He stayed in Jerusalem in the Temple and spoke to people there and when His parents found Him He said. Luke 2:49 And he said to them, “Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?” 50 And they did not understand the saying that he spoke to them. 51 And he went down with them and came to Nazareth and was submissive to them. And his mother treasured up all these things in her heart.

So Jesus was the Son of God then.
Jesus had a human mother and God was His Father from conception. (So He was human and Divine---------- of humanity and of God).

We are told that through the Son the universe was made (Heb 1:2) so He was the Son in the beginning, at the creation.

 

[Brian2]

Yes OUR Father, as Jesus taught (the Lord's Prayer)

Yes God is the Father of Jesus and of us, but Jesus is the unique Son.

Mmm .. you refer to the prelude of John, I assume.
You know that Jesus did NOT say/write that, don't you.

I know that Jesus did not write the epistles where also we are told that through Him all things were created.
I believe Jesus did say that He would be killed/crucified and rise from the dead on the third day.
You don't care what the Bible says even if Jesus said it.

No. G-d created mankind. God created Jesus, who is/was a man.
G-d did NOT create Himself, as He is Eternal .. so not like G-d in all ways.

The Son was sent from the Father to be a man. You know that but want to try to twist the meaning.

.so I count 2 .. G-d, and Jesus, who was "in on the action".
Since I discovered Islam in my early 20's, it all became clear to me .. things that I could not understand,
such as Jesus being G-d etc. have all fallen into place.

Jesus is/was the Jewish Messiah, and was born of the virgin Mary .. the rest is basically 'Greek'.

So Islam taught you that Christianity and the Bible are corrupted and only Muhammad is right.

 

[Soapy]

When Jesus was 12 years old (before His baptism) He stayed in Jerusalem in the Temple and spoke to people there and when His parents found Him He said. Luke 2:49 And he said to them, “Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?” 50 And they did not understand the saying that he spoke to them. 51 And he went down with them and came to Nazareth and was submissive to them. And his mother treasured up all these things in her heart.

So Jesus was the Son of God then.
Jesus had a human mother and God was His Father from conception. (So He was human and Divine---------- of humanity and of God).

We are told that through the Son the universe was made (Heb 1:2) so He was the Son in the beginning, at the creation.

Brian2, why has your heart been so hardened against the truth and against what is asked …

I said no where was ‘Son of God’ DECLARED of Jesus. Brian2, ALL JEWS BELIEVE THAT GOD IS THEIR [Spiritual] Father…:

• “But you are our Father, …; you, YHWH, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.” (Isaiah 63:16)

Jesus was a Jew.

 

[chinu]

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man...nor a son of man.
1 Samuel 15:29 for he is not a man
Hosea 11:9 I am God and not a man
Job 9:32 For he is not a man

So four times, FOUR, the Tanakh repeats the same teaching. Wouldn't you think that makes it rather important?

Feeling of saying is that God is NOT the man/body which is made up of flesh and bones.
Feeling of saying is that God is the divinity which is lightining inside a cretain body.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Jesus had a human mother and God was His Father from conception. (So He was human and Divine---------- of humanity and of God).

No .. the performing of miracles do not imply that a person is God.
What if Jesus had had no mother too? Would that mean that Jesus was not human at all?
Obviously not..
Was Adam not human at all? Did he have a mother and father?

 

[muhammad_isa]

I believe Jesus did say that He would be killed/crucified and rise from the dead on the third day.
You don't care what the Bible says even if Jesus said it..

I do care .. and I believe that Jesus knew he was going to be betrayed & arrested.

..and as it was a common belief that Jesus died and came to life again, I don't find it surprising
that Jesus' words were portrayed in that manner.
i.e. it only takes the beliefs of interpreter/translator's for apparent meaning to be altered

It can't be helped. There were many Gospels and other scrolls in existence, but some were deemed
heretical due to their author's beliefs.

In this case, it was believed that Jesus actually died. It is quite possible (likely) that Jesus said he was going to be crucified and he would appear again (rise again).
It's all about interpretation.

The Son was sent from the Father to be a man.

Yes .. as G-d sent many other 'Sons' before him.
..but Jesus was special .. he was born of the Virgin Mary, and is/was the promised Jewish Messiah.

So Islam taught you that Christianity and the Bible are corrupted..

Not exactly .. but having found out that there is a difference between a man & God,
things became clearer to me .. I'd always struggled with the basics.

In fact, I pulled out of confirmation due to having to repeat things that I couldn't understand.

 

[Brian2]

Brian2, why has your heart been so hardened against the truth and against what is asked …

I said no where was ‘Son of God’ DECLARED of Jesus. Brian2, ALL JEWS BELIEVE THAT GOD IS THEIR [Spiritual] Father…:

• “But you are our Father, …; you, YHWH, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.” (Isaiah 63:16)

Jesus was a Jew.

Jesus was the Son of God in more than the general Jewish way of believing that God is their Father.
There would be no Jew wanting to stone Jesus for claiming that God was His Father if all the Jews believed that.
Jesus claim was more than the claim that any Jew might use and the Jews knew it.