Is it moral for God to punish us?

[Demonslayer]

A miracle for one guy but a disaster for 220 guys.

This. Funny how the folks who claim "miracle" never see it from the point of view of the others who weren't so lucky. Imagine the hubris to think the Almighty LORD of the universe cherry picked your loved one to save, while letting all the others die.

Of course if Heaven is so damn great maybe the one who lived is really the unlucky one?

 

[MARCELLO]

This. Funny how the folks who claim "miracle" never see it from the point of view of the others who weren't so lucky. Imagine the hubris to think the Almighty LORD of the universe cherry picked your loved one to save, while letting all the others die.

Of course if Heaven is so damn great maybe the one who lived is really the unlucky one?

There are funnier things, imagine a lottery, the winner will take it all, even my prayings to god to be the winner means that rest of the betting ones will get nothing. This is really funny. The prayer or god's so called wish will be disappointment for millions whilst He will do perfectly for me.

 

[Greatest I am]

This. Funny how the folks who claim "miracle" never see it from the point of view of the others who weren't so lucky. Imagine the hubris to think the Almighty LORD of the universe cherry picked your loved one to save, while letting all the others die.

Of course if Heaven is so damn great maybe the one who lived is really the unlucky one?

Except that many take the wide road to hell while the few take the narrow path to heaven.

The few, if you think of it, if of good heart, would slowly go insane as they watch most everyone they knew and loved roasting at their feet. Son's, daughters and spouses.

Regards
DL

 

[Demonslayer]

Except that many take the wide road to hell while the few take the narrow path to heaven.

Jesus and the All Loving God agree.

The few, if you think of it, if of good heart, would slowly go insane as they watch most everyone they knew and loved roasting at their feet. Son's, daughters and spouses.

This is why I've never heard a good argument against Christians killing their children immediately after birth, to ensure their salvation.

Take me for example. I was born, baptized, went to church and prayed to Lord Yahweh and Jesus for about the first 10 years or so of my life. During that time, had I died, I would have been saved by faith and faith alone, and exalted to Heaven. Then I grew older, started having doubts, and eventually lost all belief in God. I don't pray to anyone or anything anymore and no matter how hard I try I just can't get myself to believe in God, Heaven, an afterlife, or any of that. So according to Christianity, I will burn in Hell for all eternity.

My mother could have saved me by pushing me off a cliff when I was 9. I'd be in Heaven right now with my grandparents, waiting for the arrival of my parents. Instead she let me live and doomed me to eternal torturous damnation.

Letting your child live, particularly in this modern age when so many people are rejecting theism, puts them in grave danger. What is the argument against killing your child and saving them from non-belief/damnation?

 

[Augustus]

I've never heard a good argument against Christians killing their children immediately after birth, to ensure their salvation.
... What is the argument against killing your child and saving them from non-belief/damnation?

That you yourself would go to hell?

Also a real believer would have faith in God, why would they assume God would forsake them and condemn their child to hell by refusing to show them the light?

 

[Demonslayer]

That you yourself would go to hell?

Actually that is a very good one. However, wouldn't most parents sacrifice themselves for their child? If you were given only two options:

a) you go to Hell, your child goes to Heaven
b) you go to Heaven, your child goes to Hell

Don't you think most parents would choose A?
Also a real believer would have faith in God, why would they assume God would forsake them and condemn their child to hell by refusing to show them the light?

Beacuse it's happening all the time. Use me as an example. My parents are devout Catholics. I was raised Catholic, but I stopped believing. It's an extremely common occurance today.

Did God forsake my mother?

 

[Augustus]

Did you know you can quote specific parts of a post individually by selecting the text you wish to quote and clicking on the + quote pop up then using the insert quote function for reply? It's just easier if you quote people using this function as they get a different notification that's useful in longer threads if someone isn't online at the time and is also easier for you [please read this as being said with an helpful tone rather than a condescending one, I didn't realise it for ages and ended up wasting time copy pasting stuff with the additional html codes ]

Actually that is a very good one. However, wouldn't most parents sacrifice themselves for their child? If you were given only two options:

a) you go to Hell, your child goes to Heaven
b) you go to Heaven, your child goes to Hell

Don't you think most parents would choose A?

They would choose c) possibility of me going to heaven and possibility of my child going to heaven.

Beacuse it's happening all the time. Use me as an example. My parents are devout Catholics. I was raised Catholic, but I stopped believing. It's an extremely common occurance today.

Did God forsake my mother?

I assume your mother still has hopes of you 'seeing the light'. I doubt she has given up on you.

 

[roger1440]

Our punishment is the walking away from God. We all always at the cross roads of life. We can choice life or death

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I find it perfectly acceptable for god to punish the people that believe in him. I see them punishing themselves all the time. However, I suppose it's conceivable that their god is working through them to exact his punishment on them. Either way, it's none of my business.

 

[Greatest I am]

I find it perfectly acceptable for god to punish the people that believe in him. I see them punishing themselves all the time. However, I suppose it's conceivable that their god is working through them to exact his punishment on them. Either way, it's none of my business.

None of your business only if you have no moral sense or social conscience and I think you have those.

I usually give this to those who are otherwise and are telling me I should let people believe whatever they want.


For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus

Jesus Camp 1of 3

Death to Gays.

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Except that many take the wide road to hell while the few take the narrow path to heaven.

Jesus and the All Loving God agree.

The few, if you think of it, if of good heart, would slowly go insane as they watch most everyone they knew and loved roasting at their feet. Son's, daughters and spouses.

This is why I've never heard a good argument against Christians killing their children immediately after birth, to ensure their salvation.

Take me for example. I was born, baptized, went to church and prayed to Lord Yahweh and Jesus for about the first 10 years or so of my life. During that time, had I died, I would have been saved by faith and faith alone, and exalted to Heaven. Then I grew older, started having doubts, and eventually lost all belief in God. I don't pray to anyone or anything anymore and no matter how hard I try I just can't get myself to believe in God, Heaven, an afterlife, or any of that. So according to Christianity, I will burn in Hell for all eternity.

My mother could have saved me by pushing me off a cliff when I was 9. I'd be in Heaven right now with my grandparents, waiting for the arrival of my parents. Instead she let me live and doomed me to eternal torturous damnation.

Letting your child live, particularly in this modern age when so many people are rejecting theism, puts them in grave danger. What is the argument against killing your child and saving them from non-belief/damnation?

It is a darn good thing that most Christian mothers are not as foolish as Christian men. Not to mention all the other religions that have a heaven and a hell.

It is nice to know how few really have faith.

Regards
DL

 

[bravoandi]

Not if God loves us as some say.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Would you ignore someone you love and just let them make a mistake that would send them to hell?

Regards
DL

Apparently, Hell was the first thing that God created, because that is where he sent Lucifer and his followers, according to the Book of Revelation. So it seems to me that God knew that many of us mere mortals would end up there. That seems to be in direction contradiction of the proposition that God is all loving, merciful and compassionate. We are told that god acts upon our free will by sending us grace to resist temptation to sin. Satan acts upon our free will to sin. Clearly, Satan wins many times. When Satan is victorious, he is more powerful than God, or God permits evil.

 

[Lyndon]

You need to put down your book of Revelation and pray to God for some wisdom IMHO

 

[Sleeppy]

Is it moral for God to reward us?

 

[paarsurrey]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

G-d does not punish us, we ourselves punish us:
[3:118] The likeness of what they spend for the present life is as the likeness of a wind wherein there is intense cold which smites the harvest of a people who have wronged themselves, and destroys it. And Allah has not wronged them, but they wrong themselves.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse:&ch=3&verse=115
G-d has set rules/processes, one who violates them, gets punished and is responsible for doing the wrong.
If one jumps from a multi-storey building and get hurt or dies; why did he jump from the building? Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Further to Post #195.
What is immoral about it? It is perfectly natural. Which society does not punish the criminals? Why do they punish the criminals? Please
Regards

 

[serp777]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?

We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.

For example.

God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.

Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

Regards
DL

According to the religious whatever God does is moral simply because he's the creator of morality. Whatever he does it moral. Its basically the same kind of reasoning kings used in ancient times--divine right to lead, the ruler can do no wrong.

 

[serp777]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Further to Post #195.
What is immoral about it? It is perfectly natural. Which society does not punish the criminals? Why do they punish the criminals? Please
Regards

Many societies try to rehabilitate criminals. Also the punishment is finite, not eternal and torturous. Hell is infinitely worse than the punishment any human could give another.

 

[Etritonakin]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?

We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.

For example.

God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.

Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

Regards
DL

He either corrects us..... or unleashes a bunch of immortal doofwads out into the universe to make a miserable mess of things forever.

He didn't simply make humans to have a botched existence and then die -we have an awesome future ahead, but we must be prepared to receive it.

Our mortal/flesh state -essentially dependent on one planet -is -among other things -a means to limit our destructive capability while we learn.

Even the design of our present bodies helps us learn important lessons.

 

[paarsurrey]

Many societies try to rehabilitate criminals. Also the punishment is finite, not eternal and torturous. Hell is infinitely worse than the punishment any human could give another.

Islamic/Quranic concept of punishment is to rehabilitate the wrong-doers, the words eternal etc or in relative terms, not in absolute terms.
Regards